CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

[yonexsp]

[dturco]

Looks like everyone is hung up on the 8" machines. What about the 9" machines, I think, thought , that a new tube for a 9500 is $1600 per tube?

Now that gets expensive Quick. Damn near 5k to retube. Even bare tubes are are $1100?

JVC RS25 6k?

The future is 3 years from now, what will you be doing?

[Curt Palme]

The big difference is that even with new tubes from VDC or some other source, it's pretty safe to say that a 9500 or Barco 1209s will last another 10 years with minimal work required. Can't say that for a JVC or a Sony. Even if it lasts a few bulb lifetimes, cost per hour will still be more than a CRT.

[Curt Palme]

The big difference is that even with new tubes from VDC or some other source, it's pretty safe to say that a 9500 or Barco 1209s will last another 10 years with minimal work required. Can't say that for a JVC or a Sony. Even if it lasts a few bulb lifetimes, cost per hour will still be more than a CRT.

[overclkr]

[Nashou66]

Ken the market for Tubes in the HT market is down not in commercial simulators. The Guy i bought the tubes from works at a service company that maintains simulators. he said that he works on over 200 marquee's and a bunch of barcos. Some Customers require a re tube every 5000 hours standard, and that is for all colors. these simulators he told me run 24/7 thats every 7 months roughly that they get re tubed figure maybe 230 PJ's getting re tubed every 7 months thats close to 700 tube every 7 months!! why would they reduce the price? and as more Tube manufactures close up shop they can raise prices more or keep them at that level And this is only One service company, there are more like Q4 services, Tubular outlet is a subsidiary of them from what I understand. I almost had a deal to sell bellows to them 20 every 6 months, I haven't heard form them in a few months so i am not sure whats going on there. But they are one reason VDC wont sell parts for LC assemblies anymore as they undercut them in price, This is what I have heard , now how much is true is another story.

I got all those Thomas tubes because L3 decided to stop repairing the Triton 1080HD simulator PJ they used and go with 9500Lc's instead. Aferg was going to redo the necks cards for them but they got a good deal from Thomas to make LUG's.

So if these Tube manufactures can make half a million each year selling tubes, why lower prices? CRT's will be around for a long time in that market,
Actually Thomas Tubes is looking for a engineer to design and build HVPS,s look at their web site for job opportunities.

Athanasios

[Spanky Ham]

While I would agree with yonexsp, the fact is what are there choices. The companies that are running the CRTs still need tubes and as long as they need them then there is no incentive to drop the price. At some point these companies will switch to flat panel or digital pjs. When that occurs then these service companies will just switch them to digital and continue on. The companies using CRT need them for the strengths that they offer (on/off and motion).

[Nashou66]

I forgot to mention simulators need to have light output consistent, CRT's can do that and can be adjusted(g2 raised) if the light output begins to fall, that is after a very long time like 4000 hours. A bulb will loose , what is it 20% at only 100 hours? I can't remember the actual numbers but after like 500 hours its to 35% or so. simulators can not have that. they need less than 10% drop in light output over the life of the usage cycle. No way will they build a bulb last that long, 5000 hours, with a 10% loss in output. So what is that like 50 bulbs every 7 months?

Athanasios

[Spanky Ham]

You could start out with a lower light output and raise it as it decreases. Conversely, some put filters on their pjs and take them off as the bulb ages.

I am not saying that CRTs don't have their advantages, but using cost as one is difficult. If you are looking to purchase a new pj and have to decide between the $40k CRT or an $8k JVC, then cost swings in the favor of the JVC. Over the ten years, you could buy five JVCs. Besides bulb cost will be moot in about two to three years, as everyone switches over to LED.

[Curt Palme]

You can't tell me that digital projectors will start lasting 100K hours due to LEDs. THey'd have to jack the price up 200% (or so, I haven't calculated) in order to stay in business if that's the case.

Think of it: I'm guessing the average retail markup is 20% or so on digital projectors now, less if a small dealer is trying to compete with internet pricing. The retailer is then also expecting profits due to bulb costs, and after the second or third bulb, the sale of another projector when the existing one develops problems that can't be repaired. Mean run time of a digital: under 5000 hours.

Along comes LED, same price point, but now you're saying, heck, even 20K hours lifespan out of the set with no bulb replacements?

Not gonna happen unless the retailer makes a substantial more amount of profit on the original sale.

[Curt Palme]

You can't tell me that digital projectors will start lasting 100K hours due to LEDs. THey'd have to jack the price up 200% (or so, I haven't calculated) in order to stay in business if that's the case.

Think of it: I'm guessing the average retail markup is 20% or so on digital projectors now, less if a small dealer is trying to compete with internet pricing. The retailer is then also expecting profits due to bulb costs, and after the second or third bulb, the sale of another projector when the existing one develops problems that can't be repaired. Mean run time of a digital: under 5000 hours.

Along comes LED, same price point, but now you're saying, heck, even 20K hours lifespan out of the set with no bulb replacements?

Not gonna happen unless the retailer makes a substantial more amount of profit on the original sale.

[Spanky Ham]

You bring up an interesting point and I am sure one that some people have speculated on. Big surprise that most companies are short term focused, which is one of the reason we are in the situation that we are in. The thing is what happens when everyone has a 1080p tv? That was probably one of the factors in Cedia's low attendance. They are trying to push into 3D, but that still looks gimmicky to me. HD really pushed the market over the last ten years. There has already been some shake out, but I am sure there will be some more corpses on the ground before it is over.

As for LED, there are a couple of pjs at the $15k point. I can see that being at $10k in year or two.

[Tim in Phoenix]

Hello

Electrohome and Christie incorporate variable lamp power controls into their systems so you can run new lamps on less current and adjust later for reduced output, until the lamp quits.


.

[Kiev Savoie]

[draganm]

[Mark_A_W]

Those big simulators (as well as the CRTs in them) are doomed anyway.


My friend makes full airline flight simulators at 1/10 the price of a conventional hydraulic one.


Uses big servo drives and collimated LCD displays (sense of depth).


He's sold some to Nasa.

http://www.scasims.com.au/

[Spanky Ham]

I believe VDC's headquarters is in Atlanta. The funny thing is that I have probably driven by it like two or three times this week and didn't even notice.

[Kiev Savoie]

Is the factory where the tube work is done in Louisiana? I am curious because I live in Louisiana. This might warrant a little field trip. All this time I thought i was far removed from anything having to do with this hobby.

[WanMan]

What I am most surprised at, and I've voiced this before, is why the heck the business hasn't been outsourced to China in order to dramatically reduce the costs.

[Nashou66]

There is a company in the far east that does the same thing:

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://www.mikado-seisakusho.com/seihinsyoukai/crt.htm&ei=wt3PSnLHy_EGrebV-gM&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=10&ct=result&ved=0CCwQ7gEwCQ&prev=/search%3Fq%3DP19LUG03BMB%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dsafari%26rls%3Den

Athanasios

[Elaine Benes]

[WanMan]