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Value of Rotel separates
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dturco



Joined: 06 Feb 2009
Posts: 3778
Location: Eastern Shore Maryland

TV/Projector: Runco DLP VX-3000i Marquee 9500 parts doner

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:34 pm    Post subject:

I'll admit freely that I am biased when it comes to Bryston. I have had a Rotel,3 channel amp, back in the days when S-VHS was the premier format. It fried under my use .

I had an Adcom 555. It failed under my use . Ok it was just blowing fuses, but I did not know how to repair it at the time so 3 trips to the shop. A fail safe so not that bad still good.

I bought 2 Bryston 2b Lp's Which overheated in my rack shut down, but once reset and cooled they worked fine. So no real down time to me, so I stuck with Bryston when I went to separates from a Denon 3300 AVR in the Media rooms of past homes.

The Denon also failed 2 times under warranty it was fixed both times after waiting 2-3 months for it to be returned.

Biased towards Bryston, you bet.

Unfairly, probably, because once I went to the 4B SST 6B SST I had solved the problem I was always creating , excessive heat because of lack of TRUE power.

500 watts compared to the previous equipments 125 watts and 225 watts. It was the lack of power that was the issue and my over-driving the units that was the real issue, but Bryston work for my extreme use so...

Label me Biased Mr. Green


Edit: Oh yeah, it sounds really good too Embarassed

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Last edited by dturco on Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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draganm



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:39 pm    Post subject:

Curt Palme wrote:
Dragan, I've only done the a/bing thing once with two identical speced (OK, well, power anyways), a Bryston 3B and an INter M REF 300.

Retail on the freshly refurbed amp (right from Bryston): $1200. Retail on the Korean made Inter ML: $350.
I built an A/B switch to match input levels on the amp, along with a remote a/b button where the user didn't know what amp was playing (we masked off the LED signal lights), and switched the speaker outputs to the JBL4311s via a 15 amp relay.
well you know the true auidophile would say that A/B switch killed the sonics of the better amp Very Happy We did this one time between a Rotel and a Harmon Kardon, the Rotel won easilly. I'd be willing to put my pair of Monarchy Audio SM-70's against any normal amp short of Levinson.


Curt Palme wrote:
Having cracked open literally 100s of amps at this point and seeing the same plastic output transistors in many brands, I'd dare ya to do the same test now, in 2009.
I think there's something you missed, and it's surprising given your heavy electronics background. Sure, they all use transistors, EL caps, rectifiers, etc. but there is still one huge difference. They rely on completely different cicuit designs. From class A, to A/B, to class D, to Zero feedback or how feedback is used to bias the circuit, all these things affect how an amp sounds.
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech


Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24396
Location: Langley, BC

TV/Projector: All of them!

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:56 pm    Post subject:

I agree Dragan, but I'd still need to hear the difference myself.

I guess I'm really jaded and cynical, from being involved in the commercial sound industry for years now, and having too many customers come to be and brag about sound system quality that they have, only to see a crap install, ditto for home systems. IN a commercial system, sound quality is way down on the scale of importance, functionality and reliability and INTELLIGIBILITY are rated far higher.

It's been a Loooong time since I've heard a really good stereo audiophile system, I guess I should take some time to listen to good audio.

I'm still also really cynical as to how different amps sound, and yes, I guess I should have qualified my above post by saying that the amp class as well as power rating needed to be the same between the amps you are a/bing.
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dturco



Joined: 06 Feb 2009
Posts: 3778
Location: Eastern Shore Maryland

TV/Projector: Runco DLP VX-3000i Marquee 9500 parts doner

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:59 pm    Post subject:

Dragan's a Bing?

WTF is a Bing? Laughing

That's how I sped read that

Funny.

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http://www.hulu.com/firefly
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech


Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24396
Location: Langley, BC

TV/Projector: All of them!

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 4:45 pm    Post subject:

dturco wrote:
I have had a Rotel,3 channel amp, It fried under my use .

I had an Adcom 555. It failed under my use .

I bought 2 Bryston 2b Lp's Which overheated in my rack shut down, but once reset and cooled they worked fine.

The Denon also failed 2 times under warranty




I banish you sir, to 78 RPM records and a windup record player. Mr. Green Mr. Green Mr. Green
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Tom.W



Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 6635


Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 5:06 pm    Post subject:

Curt Palme wrote:
dturco wrote:
I have had a Rotel,3 channel amp, It fried under my use .

I had an Adcom 555. It failed under my use .

I bought 2 Bryston 2b Lp's Which overheated in my rack shut down, but once reset and cooled they worked fine.

The Denon also failed 2 times under warranty




I banish you sir, to 78 RPM records and a windup record player. Mr. Green Mr. Green Mr. Green



You might also want to have your hearing checked after blowing all those amps... Wink
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech


Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24396
Location: Langley, BC

TV/Projector: All of them!

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 5:15 pm    Post subject:

Frankly, we loved customers liek dturco when I had the repair shop. Made lots of money repairing amps and blown speakers.

WE actually had a cut in half speaker showing customers 'why did I blow it up'. Usually that solved a lot of the blown speaker issues.

1) If it sound distorted, turn it down.
2) Don't turn the amp volume knob past the 11 oclock position. that's when most rotary knob amps hit max power.
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emdawgz1



Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 7949


Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 5:21 pm    Post subject:

Curt Palme wrote:
Frankly, we loved customers liek dturco when I had the repair shop. Made lots of money repairing amps and blown speakers.

WE actually had a cut in half speaker showing customers 'why did I blow it up'. Usually that solved a lot of the blown speaker issues.

1) If it sound distorted, turn it down.
2) Don't turn the amp volume knob past the 11 oclock position. that's when most rotary knob amps hit max power.


BUT THESE AMPS GO TO 11!!!!

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dturco



Joined: 06 Feb 2009
Posts: 3778
Location: Eastern Shore Maryland

TV/Projector: Runco DLP VX-3000i Marquee 9500 parts doner

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 5:34 pm    Post subject:

Tom.W wrote:
Curt Palme wrote:
dturco wrote:
I have had a Rotel,3 channel amp, It fried under my use .

I had an Adcom 555. It failed under my use .

I bought 2 Bryston 2b Lp's Which overheated in my rack shut down, but once reset and cooled they worked fine.

The Denon also failed 2 times under warranty




I banish you sir, to 78 RPM records and a windup record player. Mr. Green Mr. Green Mr. Green



You might also want to have your hearing checked after blowing all those amps... Wink


What? Huh? I can't hear you,speak louder. Laughing

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Firefly rules. Can't stop the signal.

http://www.hulu.com/firefly
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dturco



Joined: 06 Feb 2009
Posts: 3778
Location: Eastern Shore Maryland

TV/Projector: Runco DLP VX-3000i Marquee 9500 parts doner

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 5:41 pm    Post subject:

Curt Palme wrote:
Frankly, we loved customers liek dturco when I had the repair shop. Made lots of money repairing amps and blown speakers.

WE actually had a cut in half speaker showing customers 'why did I blow it up'. Usually that solved a lot of the blown speaker issues.

1) If it sound distorted, turn it down.
2) Don't turn the amp volume knob past the 11 oclock position. that's when most rotary knob amps hit max power.


Knobs? 11 O'clock position?

No thats what the clipping lights are for on Brystons. You know that max level has been hit. Rolling Eyes Laughing

Blow up speakers, yes I have.

I made a set of Canton CT 800's shoot sparks from the liquid cooled tweeters. Embarassed

But surprisingly even though it was obviously my fault Canton repaired it, and with a THANK YOU from their research and development team Thumbs Up

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draganm



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 6:34 pm    Post subject:

Curt Palme wrote:
It's been a Loooong time since I've heard a really good stereo audiophile system, I guess I should take some time to listen to good audio.I'm still also really cynical as to how different amps sound, and yes, I guess I should have qualified my above post by saying that the amp class as well as power rating needed to be the same between the amps you are a/bing.
Rocky Mountain Audio Festival is in October , only 10 bucks a day
http://audiofest.net/2009/index.php?Sid=0b2aeb6efde611c680e244dea0ac9c0f
you can hear $170K pair speakers, $100K amps, $75K turn tables and the list goes on. There's a big shift towards digital music storage and management but there will still be plenty of Vinyl to.
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paw



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 1176
Location: Arvada, CO

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 2:32 am    Post subject:

draganm wrote:
Curt Palme wrote:
It's been a Loooong time since I've heard a really good stereo audiophile system, I guess I should take some time to listen to good audio.I'm still also really cynical as to how different amps sound, and yes, I guess I should have qualified my above post by saying that the amp class as well as power rating needed to be the same between the amps you are a/bing.
Rocky Mountain Audio Festival is in October , only 10 bucks a day
http://audiofest.net/2009/index.php?Sid=0b2aeb6efde611c680e244dea0ac9c0f
you can hear $170K pair speakers, $100K amps, $75K turn tables and the list goes on. There's a big shift towards digital music storage and management but there will still be plenty of Vinyl to.


Though the room acoustics can REALLY reek havic on some of these systems. It's hard to get good sound out of a hotel room.

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Curt Palme
CRT Tech


Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24396
Location: Langley, BC

TV/Projector: All of them!

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 3:56 am    Post subject:

Yep, I see that at CES all the time. I look into the high end rooms with the 50K speakers, and wonder why they bother.
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Tom.W



Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 6635


Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 4:15 am    Post subject:

paw wrote:
draganm wrote:
Curt Palme wrote:
It's been a Loooong time since I've heard a really good stereo audiophile system, I guess I should take some time to listen to good audio.I'm still also really cynical as to how different amps sound, and yes, I guess I should have qualified my above post by saying that the amp class as well as power rating needed to be the same between the amps you are a/bing.
Rocky Mountain Audio Festival is in October , only 10 bucks a day
http://audiofest.net/2009/index.php?Sid=0b2aeb6efde611c680e244dea0ac9c0f
you can hear $170K pair speakers, $100K amps, $75K turn tables and the list goes on. There's a big shift towards digital music storage and management but there will still be plenty of Vinyl to.


Though the room acoustics can REALLY reek havic on some of these systems. It's hard to get good sound out of a hotel room.


Specially when you have that constant banging noise coming from the honeymoon suite next door.... Smile
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