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deronmoped
Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 1154
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 5:10 pm Post subject: Where have all the "For Sale" CRT PJ's gone? |
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Does Curt have a big warehouse where he is hording them all 
I remember when I first got into these CRT's they were being sold by everyone and their mother, now I look around and it has dwindled down to nothing. Well we all know Curt is doing a outstanding job of supplying PJ's, but there must be tens of thousands of them still out there floating around. Sure some ended up in the scrap heap, but what about all the others, tucked away in someones garage?
I know I have a 9PG and a Barco 1100 that I have tucked away, what about you guys, do you know where some PJs are?
Deron.
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24396
Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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| Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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I get 2-3 calls and emails a day. On Tuesday it was:
'Curt, do you want to buy 200 projectors?'
??????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Turns out it was a simulator place that used Barco 701s and 708. 30K to 50K hours on each set, they wanted $500 per set. I laughed and told them to come back when they were $50 each. 
I turn down way more than I buy at this point. Most are ES sets (can you give me $300 for a Barco 800/Sony 1031?), or someone that wants $5K for a 9500LC with tube wear. The rest... ARE MINE!
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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banzairun
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 129
Location: NJ
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 1:26 am Post subject: |
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| Curt Palme wrote: |
Turns out it was a simulator place that used Barco 701s and 708. 30K to 50K hours on each set, they wanted $500 per set. I laughed and told them to come back when they were $50 each.
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NASCAR Silicon Motor Speedway?
They have a few of those around the country in malls, etc.. each of the 10-20 car sims in the place had 3 Barco 701/8 for the display. Between the races--which is probably the majority of a weekday--the two side view projectors displayed "RED RACE" in text half the screen height with a flat red background (or blue race, etc).. No thought went in to tube life whatsoever.
$50 might be too much!
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perisoft
Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 2920
Location: Ithaca, NY
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:06 am Post subject: |
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| banzairun wrote: | | Curt Palme wrote: |
Turns out it was a simulator place that used Barco 701s and 708. 30K to 50K hours on each set, they wanted $500 per set. I laughed and told them to come back when they were $50 each.
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NASCAR Silicon Motor Speedway?
They have a few of those around the country in malls, etc.. each of the 10-20 car sims in the place had 3 Barco 701/8 for the display. Between the races--which is probably the majority of a weekday--the two side view projectors displayed "RED RACE" in text half the screen height with a flat red background (or blue race, etc).. No thought went in to tube life whatsoever.
$50 might be too much! |
Sounds like they were as careful with their CRT setup as they were with their motion cuing... my god, what a bunch of jokers. Their 'simulation' was five years behind when it was new, at best - and by the time they shut down it was downright embarrassing...
_________________
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zGman
Joined: 22 May 2006
Posts: 599
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, that was bad - really bad.....
I was so excited about it and drove a long way to try it,
and couldn't believe I wasted my money when it was over -
lousy graphics, no force feedback, and the motion made no
sense whatever. Just not any sense of acceleration or
braking ....
G
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24396
Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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The place I bought 29 from was www.daytonausa.com. They switched to digitals about a year ago. At 14-16 hours a day use, I can only imagine the bulb costs...
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secstate
Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Posts: 720
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| Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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Well the government seems to be selling fewer of them and whole projectors unless minty 8" EM sets or better aren't worth shipping. Frequently projectors are worth the same or more as parts. This has all really thinned the herd of resellers. I parted out my minty Data 808s and all I am left with is the Runco 1100 on my ceiling and the spare in the garage (with a lot of bad boards). The advantage is if you are patient and will to travel to pickup you find you can find some great deals out there.
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Kiev Savoie
Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Posts: 432
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| Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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how hard is it to find those auctions sec? It seems like they are getting more rare at corporate liquidations as well, unless you want a digital with no bulb!
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RVonse
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 3152
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| Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 10:57 pm Post subject: Re: Where have all the "For Sale" CRT PJ's gone? |
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| deronmoped wrote: | Does Curt have a big warehouse where he is hording them all
I remember when I first got into these CRT's they were being sold by everyone and their mother, now I look around and it has dwindled down to nothing. Well we all know Curt is doing a outstanding job of supplying PJ's, but there must be tens of thousands of them still out there floating around. Sure some ended up in the scrap heap, but what about all the others, tucked away in someones garage?
I know I have a 9PG and a Barco 1100 that I have tucked away, what about you guys, do you know where some PJs are?
Deron. |
I've noticed the same thing, especially on ebay. I guess where the price point has fallen, it is no longer economically viable to trade and ship all that weight around the country. I'm thinking there would still be more activity even at low price points if shipping were much less than it is.
I have a couple of 8" EF focus machines tucked away myself and just can not get myself to sell them for what little they would be worth.
Who knows, maybe in a few more years they will become collectable items like some of my antique jukeboxs. 
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deronmoped
Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 1154
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 5:32 am Post subject: Re: Where have all the "For Sale" CRT PJ's gone? |
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| RVonse wrote: | | deronmoped wrote: | Does Curt have a big warehouse where he is hording them all
I remember when I first got into these CRT's they were being sold by everyone and their mother, now I look around and it has dwindled down to nothing. Well we all know Curt is doing a outstanding job of supplying PJ's, but there must be tens of thousands of them still out there floating around. Sure some ended up in the scrap heap, but what about all the others, tucked away in someones garage?
I know I have a 9PG and a Barco 1100 that I have tucked away, what about you guys, do you know where some PJs are?
Deron. |
I've noticed the same thing, especially on ebay. I guess where the price point has fallen, it is no longer economically viable to trade and ship all that weight around the country. I'm thinking there would still be more activity even at low price points if shipping were much less than it is.
I have a couple of 8" EF focus machines tucked away myself and just can not get myself to sell them for what little they would be worth.
Who knows, maybe in a few more years they will become collectable items like some of my antique jukeboxs. |
What comes around goes around again, eventually.
When CD's came along people were dumping their record albums, now some records are worth a small fortune. Tube amplifier's used to be junk to be thrown out when solid state came on the scene, now some of those are worth a small fortune.
Put away some high end PJ's, tubes and parts and wait ten to twenty years. 
Deron.
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Mr. Green
Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Posts: 1394
Location: Calgary
TV/Projector: Marquee 9501LC / NEC 9PG+
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 5:36 am Post subject: |
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Those other things don't weigh 200 lbs though. 
_________________
You can be young only once but, you can be immature forever.
Current Projector Marquee9501LC with PS3 (BLu-Ray) at 1080P LOVE IT! Screen is an Elunevision 120" 4:3 (2.4 gain - no hotspots). (also own a NEC 9PG+)
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Elaine Benes
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 1416
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:59 am Post subject: Re: Where have all the "For Sale" CRT PJ's gone? |
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| deronmoped wrote: |
Put away some high end PJ's, tubes and parts and wait ten to twenty years. 8-)
Deron. |
Or take that same amount of money and buy a 20 year insured GIC ? Wanna take bets which one is worth more at the end ?
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Kiev Savoie
Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Posts: 432
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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Hey i just wanted to throw this in as it seems related. I have been wondering for some time about this scarcity issue. Prices are getting better and better but availability is starting to slack off. Mark A W mentioned on another thread that VDC isn't bothering with 8" tubes anymore. Is Marquee the only company left in the CRT game? It seems like CRT's days at the top of the hill are numbered and some technology like laser projection will eventually make a quantum leap forward and replace it. Of course, then it would be a number of years before the new technology was cheap enough for us poor folks. So let's say the next big thing is finally developed to outperform CRT in the next five years (that's the prediction i hear a lot on this forum) and it takes another 5 to 10 years to become as cheap as one of those crappy 40"-50" flat panels from walmart. That means a CRT guy with shallow pockets needs to keep his setup maintained for another 7 to 15 years! Will CRT enthusiasts be able to make it, or will we be forced to go digital before digital is worth a damn? Opinions anyone?
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Elaine Benes
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 1416
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Kiev Savoie wrote: | | before digital is worth a damn? Opinions anyone? |
It all depends on how you define "worth a damn."
From what I've seen from a recent 1080p LCD digital, except for black level, the digitals are already more than "worth a damn" and they're CHEAPER than 9" CRT projectors by 50%- 75%, depending on where and how you buy each type of projector.
Curt is basically the ONLY seller propping up the 9" CRT prices, and unfortunately for the enthusiast, will likely maintain that un-characteristically high value until its too late and crt projectors are really just a curiosity.
Some will always love CRT over ANYTHING else, so be it, but depending on the priorities of the user, digital is likely already good enough for most users.
The thing with current technology is, its constantly being developed, its not stagnant like the beloved CRT, so improvements, while not necessarily noticed here, are constant. We miss the incremental improvements, being so wrapped up in crt minutia. My buddy, with enough money to actually keep buying stuff, has a newer 1080p digital, in addition to a well setup, perfect tubed G90, and he likes BOTH images. The difference is pretty much ONLY absolute black level, and the digital has been improved, even while he's owned it, by updated firmware.
It would surprise me more to have a big breakthrough type change supplant CRT, I would bet falling price points on new tech, combined with incremental improvements will provide the item which finally supplants CRT.
But, to many of us here, the thing that keeps US in CRT is that we already own one that we've purchased for a couple of hundred bucks, until there is a BETTER projector, for LESS, we'll have no reason to change. Or until it becomes more economically sensible to change than to pay to repair a technology which is no longer being developed...
And to the OP, the reason there are so many fewer CRT "for sale" ads is that many of the crass crt resellers who jumped in when there was a huge windfall from flipping them have abandoned the market since the profit margins have fallen BACK to where they were when this all started about 10 years ago...That, and many industrial places which had crt's have long since disposed of them in favor of the newer, and MUCH less expensive digitals.
Many of you argue that digitals are MORE expensive when you factor in the lamp costs, etc. etc. etc. But that isn't true. I work in an area that is hot and dirty, we have a dozen digital projectors in use 24/7 displaying information. This would NEVER have been possible with crt technology because the crts are too big, too dim, and too expensive to put in AND maintain. The digitals were ALL installed in less than a day, their only maintenance is to come out with the remote every few months and re-focus the image. About once a year or so they are replaced and thrown away. It takes minutes.The company buys so many, they get brand new projectors for less than $500. EACH, and every new one is better, and lasts longer than the last. I tell you, they can buy an awful lot of $500. digitals for the $20,000. each CRT would have cost them, JUST in purchase price alone, not even considering the half day each one would have cost in installation time...
There are some awful good reasons crt technology is withering, and the vast majority of those reasons have nothing to do with ultimate image quality in a home theater environment. Remember, we only got the opportunity to GET these crt projectors because they were removed from industrial situations...
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emdawgz1
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 7949
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Elaine Benes wrote: |
From what I've seen from a recent 1080p LCD digital, except for black level, the digitals are already more than "worth a damn" and they're CHEAPER than 9" CRT projectors by 50%- 75%, depending on where and how you buy each type of projector.
Curt is basically the ONLY seller propping up the 9" CRT prices, and unfortunately for the enthusiast, will likely maintain that un-characteristically high value until its too late and crt projectors are really just a curiosity.
Some will always love CRT over ANYTHING else, so be it, but depending on the priorities of the user, digital is likely already good enough for most users.
The thing with current technology is, its constantly being developed, its not stagnant like the beloved CRT, so improvements, while not necessarily noticed here, are constant. We miss the incremental improvements, being so wrapped up in crt minutia. My buddy, with enough money to actually keep buying stuff, has a newer 1080p digital, in addition to a well setup, perfect tubed G90, and he likes BOTH images. The difference is pretty much ONLY absolute black level, and the digital has been improved, even while he's owned it, by updated firmware.
There are some awful good reasons crt technology is withering, and the vast majority of those reasons have nothing to do with ultimate image quality in a home theater environment. Remember, we only got the opportunity to GET these crt projectors because they were removed from industrial situations... |
bull****!
Curt is participating in the marketplace. There are many folks who appreciate what he offers. When thats not the case, the market will speak and Curt will have to change.
If You are enamored with the virtues of the digital projector, i just have to ask.....
Y
R
U
HERE?????
_________________
Follow my blog
www.thesinglebrother.com
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Elaine Benes
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 1416
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| emdawgz1 wrote: | | Elaine Benes wrote: |
From what I've seen from a recent 1080p LCD digital, except for black level, the digitals are already more than "worth a damn" and they're CHEAPER than 9" CRT projectors by 50%- 75%, depending on where and how you buy each type of projector.
Curt is basically the ONLY seller propping up the 9" CRT prices, and unfortunately for the enthusiast, will likely maintain that un-characteristically high value until its too late and crt projectors are really just a curiosity.
Some will always love CRT over ANYTHING else, so be it, but depending on the priorities of the user, digital is likely already good enough for most users.
The thing with current technology is, its constantly being developed, its not stagnant like the beloved CRT, so improvements, while not necessarily noticed here, are constant. We miss the incremental improvements, being so wrapped up in crt minutia. My buddy, with enough money to actually keep buying stuff, has a newer 1080p digital, in addition to a well setup, perfect tubed G90, and he likes BOTH images. The difference is pretty much ONLY absolute black level, and the digital has been improved, even while he's owned it, by updated firmware.
There are some awful good reasons crt technology is withering, and the vast majority of those reasons have nothing to do with ultimate image quality in a home theater environment. Remember, we only got the opportunity to GET these crt projectors because they were removed from industrial situations... |
bull****!
Curt is participating in the marketplace. There are many folks who appreciate what he offers. When thats not the case, the market will speak and Curt will have to change.
If You are enamored with the virtues of the digital projector, i just have to ask.....
Y
R
U
HERE????? |
I'm not sure what made you so angry ??
I'm here because I own a BG808S, and have owned lots of other crt projectors in the past. I like them, and will likely use one for many more years to come because I can't afford to buy a replacement that is better and cheaper.
What's wrong with liking a lot about digitals ? It's not black or white, there are lots of things digitals now do better than crt...
What is wrong with me pointing out Curt is one of the few remaining sellers of 9" crt's within a certain price level ?
Its the truth, easily seen if you check out any other venue for used crt's. Its to the point where he is trolling those other venues to buy certain projectors to resell to his client base. When that happens, it could mean an enthusiast who isn't buying from him won't get to buy that projector, like the DTV1100 from videogon that sold for $1000. and will end up in Europe for quite a bit more...
He has every right to do that, and more power to him as long as he can do it.
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emdawgz1
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 7949
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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A. I'm not angry.
B. What got me was your posting that Curt was "Propping Up" Crt prices. Curt is one of a very few w/ the expertise to do what he does. Refurbing. maintaining these beasts.... It's a good deal.
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Follow my blog
www.thesinglebrother.com
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24396
Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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I can see how Em took Elaine's post to be bashing me. I take it the other way, that I'm literally the only guy left that refurbs and backs them with a warranty and tech support, thus my 'high' pricing as compared to as is sales anywhere else on the 'net.
Take it either way, the comment is correct I guess.
I will argue about the source of the CRTs, high or low end at this point. I'd say 50% of my sets are coming from HT de-installs with low hours on them. With some sets (Marquee and BArco), it really doesn't seem to matter whether the chassis has 500 or 50K hours on it, they are so reliable that I'll resell either one in a heartbeat, although of course the low hour sets sell for more and usually don't need to be retubed, others I'd far prefer to get a set from a 1 owner HT system over a commercial install.
What will determine the longevity is how well the sets were built, how they were used, and ultimately the quality of parts used to build the sets. I'm discouraging the purchase of ES focusing sets in general, and have deeply discounted the price of any parts for the Barco 800/Sony 12XX, ECP, etc simply so I can still sell what I have, maintain my customer base, but am encouraging that customers upgrade if their ES focusing set fails.
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Kiev Savoie
Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Posts: 432
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Elaine Benes"][quote="emdawgz1"][quote="Elaine Benes"]
I'm here because I own a BG808S, and have owned lots of other crt projectors in the past. I like them, and will likely use one for many more years to come because I can't afford to buy a replacement that is [i]better and cheaper[/i].
What's wrong with liking a lot about digitals ? It's not black or white, there are lots of things digitals now do better than crt...
[/quote]
My goodness, look what I started. As you say Elaine I too can not buy one that is better and cheaper (though there is nothing quite better just yet). What do you figure that digital comparable to the G90 your friend got cost him? i'm going to bet it was enough to buy a new compact car! You have to admit the price to quality ratio of these old beasts is unbeatable. Yes, the digitals are tantalizingly close to the mark that CRT has set, but it may be a few more years still before they can set the new standard and they won't be cheap out of the gate.
As for the benefits of digital they do have a few things going for them and yes, you would have to be insane to use CRT in a business setting like the one you mentioned. BUT, i'm a home theater guy, that's my only concern and home theater is the last bastion of the mighty CRT projector.
As far as Curt is concerned, the reason he can charge a premium for his units goes beyond just the projector itself, as he just said, he freely offers advice, warranty, tech support and basically has the full confidence of his customers and that I think is the true commodity he has to offer. Before I came across this site and read his CRT Primer, I had no idea that the 1272 i bought several years before with 7,000 hours on the tubes for $2,000 was a complete ripoff, I had no idea what things like tube wear, EM focus, liquid coupling and the like were or even that the computer I was running my unit on was referred to as an HTPC. Thank God my projector came with the instruction manual or it would have never got up and running!
BTW Curt, do you remember that Mitsubishi WS-73615 RPTV I posted about? I took your advice to "run don't walk" and picked it up for $200! It sat in my living room as my backup while I was getting my system together. I plan on flipping it pretty soon to pay some bills. Thanks! i'm not sure if I would have made that purchase without some encouragement.
So, Anywhoo... I think it's safe to say, Elaine, that you believe my 7-15 year estimate is a little steep and that we will all have a great cheap replacement for our CRT's before they all die?
Anyone else care to offer their opinion?
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