CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

Elaine Benes · Joined: 25 Apr 2006 Posts: 1416

ecrabb · Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 8:58 pm Post subject:

RobertMfromLI · Joined: 29 Jun 2009 Posts: 114 Location: West Islip, NY

RobertMfromLI · Joined: 29 Jun 2009 Posts: 114 Location: West Islip, NY

Of course (how much/often I run these things), the BG500 and the 11'x8+' screen in my room was my TV set. And my computer monitor. And my "mood visualization thingie" for the music that was constantly playing when TV or DVDs weren't.

So... figure I'd be replacing a bulb every 9-11 months if it was a LCD/DLP PJ that used such. At this point, instead of buying ONE BG800, I could have bought EIGHT-TEN BG800's for what bulbs would have cost me.

Bulbs aside, I am very leary in believing that the rest of the internals on the LCD and DLP PJs would last TWO decades.

Kiev Savoie · Joined: 25 Oct 2007 Posts: 432

Just checked the specs on the RS2 and RS20. Not too shabby, i have to admit, and the RS2 is going for about $4,000 now on fleabay. Thats still way out of my price range, but i could see them being close to current 8" CRT prices in another three years or so. I figured they would be a bit brighter, but I suppose they can be used with higher gain screens than the paltry 1.3 gain we are limited to.
Here was an interesting feature mentioned for the RS2:

Comments: Two HDMI 1.3 inputs. A new V-Stretch mode allows movies with a 2.35:1 aspect ratio to be projected using all 1920 x 1080 pixels.

That might be cool.

Based on these units alone I am inclined to agree more with your 3-5 year time frame Ecrabb
Prepare for Obsolescence in 10, 9, 8, .... Very Happy

**AnalogRocks** · Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 12:23 am Post subject:

Kiev Savoie · Joined: 25 Oct 2007 Posts: 432

You make a good point Robert. I really was not taking into account how long a well setup quality CRT projector can last. I've bought so many just to play with them and then moved on to something better that I guess I kind of lost sight of that fact. From the perspective Ecrabb is taking though, I really can't see very many of us wearing out our current machines before we can acquire a satisfying replacement with newer technology (hopefully something without ridiculously overpriced bulbs!).

Check these links out for the Pico Projector:

http://www.microvision.com/pico_projector_displays/howitworks.html

and here's the specs:

http://www.microvision.com/pdfs/pek_specs.pdf

I know the 10 lumens brightness sounds laughable but you have to keep in mind the unique properties of laser light. I understand they are still a few years from producing a good true green laser and I can't find this tech on a larger scale with higher resolution. But it's solid state and being such is easy to mass produce. I think a home theater version with more powerful lasers and HD or higher resolution is only a matter of time. Also I believe this technology is quite capable of true blacks because of the ability of the laser to be turned completely off for any given pixel and maybe even the possibility to control brightness through extremely precise pulse timing (ie. bright pixel, long pulse/dim pixel short pulse).

Kiev Savoie · Joined: 25 Oct 2007 Posts: 432

[quote="AnalogRocks"]

It's only obsolete if it's no good to you anymore.

~AR

Very Happy

[/quote]

Well said Sir! Smile

The good news is many of us will get our 9" dream machines sooner and cheaper than we may have thought!

bbfarmht · Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:29 am Post subject:

Kiev Savoie · Joined: 25 Oct 2007 Posts: 432

I just like to be optimistic! Smile

**AnalogRocks** · Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 2:07 am Post subject:

Anyone still run a 386 to go with their 1993 projector? Laughing

**Curt Palme** · Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 2:08 am Post subject:

I have a computer with Windows 3.11 on it. Still works. I won't throw it out, I'll never use it. D

deronmoped · Joined: 03 Nov 2006 Posts: 1154 Location: San Diego

What if there were videophiles out there, what direction would PJ technology take? You look at the audiophile side and expense is no object for the absolute best. What would a true videophile settle for?

Right now I think video has not matured, home theaters are more about impressing some guests with flashy furnishings and having a overly bright picture that can be show to a bunch of people at once. With audio, there is only one really good seat in the house, everything else is a compromise. When is there going to be really high end video systems coming out? That means there are no compromises in the PJ, theater... When will the Venetian have tons of hi end video rooms like they have audio rooms for CES. Where are the $250,000.00 PJ's for strictly hi end video?

Deron.

km987654 · Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 8:27 am Post subject:

Anyone debating digital over CRT hasn't watched enough of either. Come on I look at digitals all day and I am just blown away by the quality of the CRT image on my projector and it still has some way to go before I am satisfied. Digtals will continue to improve or maybe will be replaced by some wizbang technology no one has heard of yet but nothing will produce a CRT image because each technology produces it image differently. The CRT projector has a quality about it that you just won't / can't get from anything else at any time so if you like what you see when you look at your CRT then keep it.

huggy · Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 8:47 am Post subject:

I just love watching the RGB tubes light up in a pitch black room Very Happy

Dave

ecrabb · Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 3:36 pm Post subject:

ecrabb · Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 3:42 pm Post subject:

**Curt Palme** · Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 4:10 pm Post subject:

I think a big part of t it is the 'do it yourself' portion of the setup/install. I personally could watch an RS1 or 2, the last digitals that I took a close look at, but where's the fun in plug and play?

I rebuild cars for fun, early 1990s with blown/damaged engines. I buy them for $200-500, drop in $2K or so by the time I'm done, and then realize I can't make any money reselling them, but I still do it. I could easily take the same money, but a car for $2000-2500 that needs nothing, never mind the hours of labor and cuts and dirty hands that I get while rebuilding the car, but it takes my thought away from PC boards and solder, and when I'm done, I can say: 'I rebuilt that'.

Ditto for CRTs, and also ditto for people that mount and set up projectors that buy them from me or someone else.

Ditto for anything else that people work on, be it computers, woodworking, whatever.

deronmoped · Joined: 03 Nov 2006 Posts: 1154 Location: San Diego

ecrabb · Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:59 pm Post subject:

I guess I don't agree, Deron. Yeah, there are those "videophile" terms for video, but I don't care how much more three-dimensional you say it looks, or what the specs are on the lenses or video amps. The proof is right there to measure and evaluate when you throw up some test patterns. All the marketing bull**** is out the window when the qualitative measurements are down on paper.

Very little of that is true in high-end audio. What can you quantitatively measure with speakers? Frequency response - both on- and off-axis? Efficiency? That's about it! Amps and sources are better - at least you can measure power and THD and possibly S/N... But, even those don't tell the whole story.

Vision and visual perception is just a little more black/white than audio and aural perception. Like I said, it's easier to measure, to correct, to evaluate.

So, again... There's no reason for a $250,000 projector when it would be measured to be little, if any better than a $100,000 projector. Yeah, you could BS people at the showroom, but the BS wouldn't fly when it got reviewed in some trade pub and it was no better than projectors costing half or one-third the price.

How can you test, measure or evaluate quantitatively that a pair of Wilson Grand Slams are any better (or even just worth the extra money) over a pair of speakers costing half that much? The answer is you can't!!! You can take a few measurements, but the rest is seat-of-the pants, listen with your ears, use your judgment stuff.

As for mods, I wasn't talking about CRT projectors... 15-year old analog CRT projector are a different story. I was referring to the digitals that are on the market. Yes, some groups can do small tweaks and reconfigurations, write better software and add procession to add capabilities, but it ain't easy to simply mod a light engine to make it better. That's why most of the companies doing that are selling very high-end, very expensive projectors to a very niche market - just like high-end audio.

As for not designing a room around a projector the way audiophiles do, I think it's a number of factors... For one, the whole point of an audiovisual experience IS the experience itself! It isn't to stare at a great big giant bird's eye maple and 24k gold or concrete and carbon graphite enclosure... That would be completely defeating the purpose of the projector... Second, mega-buck finishing and high-design visual treatment just adds to the cost and nothing to the performance. In that way, there's actually a sensibility in the video market that doesn't seem to exist in high-end audiophile stuff. All that stuff is just icing... Big buck finishing that adds little, if anything to the real point of the speakers - the faithful reproduction of audio.

SC