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greg_mitch
Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 5320
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Zebu Fellenz
Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 2567
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| Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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White van speakers...
Can't complain too loud for the price though 
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greg_mitch
Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 5320
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| Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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I know...I can honestly say that I have a pair of white van speakers...
From a guy at work who said "my roommate" bought them from a guy outside of Lowes.
Sure....
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greg_mitch
Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 5320
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| Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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Check it out and be jealous!
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 2:02 am Post subject: |
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Thank God they're digital ready!
They actually look pretty nice just sitting in your HT. With the lights off, you can't see the stick-on vinyl at all.
I wonder what would happen if you actually fed them 400w of clean power...
So, how do they sound?
SC
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greg_mitch
Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 5320
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| Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 2:22 am Post subject: |
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Dull comes to mind.
I thought about just hooking them up to the Behringer in bridged mode and cranking it up until I see the magic smoke and putting it on youtube.
Unfortunately they sound JUST good enough for the garage or seomthing....
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24396
Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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| Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 2:24 am Post subject: |
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I like the model number AF 2003. What, did AF 2000, 2001 and 2002 not pass quality control? 
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 2:59 am Post subject: |
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| Curt Palme wrote: | | I like the model number AF 2003. What, did AF 2000, 2001 and 2002 not pass quality control? |
No, AF 2000, 2001 and 2002 refer to THOSE years' scams. Greg inherited the 2003 scam.
SC
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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| Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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That's the thing about these white van speakers. At first glance they actually seem to look ok. Then you lift them and they weight much less than they should, a knuckle rap test and they sound like a hollow cave... Hmmm....
I hear most of them don't even have crossovers. Why put in crossovers if the customer can't see them? By the time they plug them in the seller will be long gone...
Kal
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My basement/HT/bar/brewery build 2.0
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greg_mitch
Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 5320
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 4:54 am Post subject: |
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Nice news bit about it.
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HogPilot
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 2383
TV/Projector: Vizio P702ui-B3, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD
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| Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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| AnalogRocks wrote: | | Nice news bit about it. |
Yeah, that was pretty funny.
Here's a question - are many "high end" audio and video companies (and the "high end" retailers that support them) any better than these parking lot guys? As far as I'm concerned they essentially pull the same bit - selling overly priced gear while whispering in your ear of the audio or video nirvana that it will bring you. Of course those types do it in fancy showrooms and not the back of SUVs, but the basic concept is the same - elicit a powerful emotional response to get someone to fork out way more cash than what that item's performance warrants.
I like to call it the Lexicon Effect. Sorry Lexicon - you're hardly the only company doing business this way, just the most recent one getting blatantly caught.
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| ecrabb wrote: | | Curt Palme wrote: | | Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure. |
He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.
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greg_mitch
Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 5320
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| Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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We have had this discussion a few times...things are worth what you are willing to pay for them, right?
My only concern is that the original price was never $3500 for the speaker, so that is dishonest. The company didn't have any delivery mess ups...and don't install any systems. That is dishonest.
As far as a $500 speaker being only 1/10th as good as a $5000 speaker...I agree with what you are saying.
There are measurable performance differences though...although it is impossible to measure what sounds "good" to everybody.
I like to measure for comparison...but in the end...the beauty is in the eye...or ear of the beholder. 
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HogPilot
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 2383
TV/Projector: Vizio P702ui-B3, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD
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| Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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Sure, anything is willing what any uninformed fool is willing to pay. That doesn't make the act of telling someone you're selling them a Ferrari when you know it's a cheapo kit car any less morally defensible, whether it's happening out of the back of an SUV in a parking lot or a high-end AV showroom. I just really don't see a moral difference between the two.
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| ecrabb wrote: | | Curt Palme wrote: | | Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure. |
He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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| HogPilot wrote: | | Here's a question - are many "high end" audio and video companies (and the "high end" retailers that support them) any better than these parking lot guys? |
Greg's exactly right... In audiophile gear, there are typically no fraudulent claims (well, let's leave cables and other audiofool "doodads" out of the mix for the purposes of this discussion) or outright misrepresentations. There's a product, with a company behind, and it's a certain price. Take it or leave it...
I'd also argue, that in the case of most audiophile gear, there's at least a good chunk of intrinsic value in the design, raw materials, finishing, and construction. So... You can certainly debate whether a $100,000 pair of Wilsons really sounds 8x better than a $12,000 pair of Dunlavys, and whether the Dunlavys sound twice as good as a pair of a pair of Paradigm Signatures, but the fact is that those products have real intrinsic value, and can be resold.
In stark contrast, the white van stuff is worth quite literally almost nothing. There is little to no intrinsic value because the merchandise is complete and utter junk, there is no after-sale support, and no residual resale value.
| HogPilot wrote: | | I like to call it the Lexicon Effect. Sorry Lexicon - you're hardly the only company doing business this way, just the most recent one getting blatantly caught. |
I hate the Lexicon situation, and I wish you'd quite referring to it as some sort of proof that most everything audiophile is BS. Lexicon used to build some really great (if a little expensive) gear. Their extensive experience in prosound made for some really awesome consumer gear. Then, Harman bought them in 1993 and has been killing the company ever since. Almost all the original people that used the run the company left years ago. There's hardly anything left of it. So, it's not a good example of how audiophile gear is a ruse, as much is it's an example of how a big corporate acquisition can ruin a great small company. Thanks, Harman.
I'm no audiophile - I can't afford it, and even if I could, I'd be pretty modest with what I spent my money on. But, to equate expensive and overpriced just isn't right. Some things do have value; whether it's worth it to you is a different story. What you might consider reasonable, I might consider ridiculous - and vice-versa. I guess what I'm trying to say is audiophile does not necessarily equal "audiofool".
SC
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HogPilot
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 2383
TV/Projector: Vizio P702ui-B3, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD
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| Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: | | HogPilot wrote: | | Here's a question - are many "high end" audio and video companies (and the "high end" retailers that support them) any better than these parking lot guys? |
Greg's exactly right... In audiophile gear, there are typically no fraudulent claims (well, let's leave cables and other audiofool "doodads" out of the mix for the purposes of this discussion) or outright misrepresentations. There's a product, with a company behind, and it's a certain price. Take it or leave it... |
I say to the underlined portion - you have got to be kidding me. For years the "audiophile" industry has hidden behind the veil of subjectivity and glamorous marketing to sell gear that costs huge sums of money with absolutely no objective reason behind it. I never said all audiophile gear is crap, but let's take off our rose colored glasses here for a second and not assume that just because a product has a fancy marketing campaign, a pretty facade, and is built by some nice people that the placebo effect isn't ever knowingly exploited to make a buck.
| ecrabb wrote: | | I'd also argue, that in the case of most audiophile gear, there's at least a good chunk of intrinsic value in the design, raw materials, finishing, and construction. So... You can certainly debate whether a $100,000 pair of Wilsons really sounds 8x better than a $12,000 pair of Dunlavys, and whether the Dunlavys sound twice as good as a pair of a pair of Paradigm Signatures, but the fact is that those products have real intrinsic value, and can be resold. |
A large reason that any product has intrinsic value is because we're made to believe it does. That's what marketing is all about. That's why we look for some sort of objective measurements to back up subjective claims. And frankly I abhor the age-old claim that people are capable of hearing or seeing more than we can detect with electronic equipment, and that therefore we for some reason need to rely on our senses alone to determine the worth of something. Both objective and subjective measurements are important in evaluating any piece of gear, and frankly this argument that objective measurement is useless is another marketing cop-out that's been propagated through the years in order to justify exorbitant prices for re-badged or otherwise unremarkable gear.
| ecrabb wrote: | | In stark contrast, the white van stuff is worth quite literally almost nothing. There is little to no intrinsic value because the merchandise is complete and utter junk, there is no after-sale support, and no residual resale value. |
As has been already pointed out, if someone feels that they are happy with something's performance based on what they paid, how again is the white van stuff any different than anything else? And who buys anything out of the back of a van in a parking lot with the expectation of support?
| ecrabb wrote: | I hate the Lexicon situation, and I wish you'd quite referring to it as some sort of proof that most everything audiophile is BS. Lexicon used to build some really great (if a little expensive) gear. Their extensive experience in prosound made for some really awesome consumer gear. Then, Harman bought them in 1993 and has been killing the company ever since. Almost all the original people that used the run the company left years ago. There's hardly anything left of it. So, it's not a good example of how audiophile gear is a ruse, as much is it's an example of how a big corporate acquisition can ruin a great small company. Thanks, Harman.
I'm no audiophile - I can't afford it, and even if I could, I'd be pretty modest with what I spent my money on. But, to equate expensive and overpriced just isn't right. Some things do have value; whether it's worth it to you is a different story. What you might consider reasonable, I might consider ridiculous - and vice-versa. I guess what I'm trying to say is audiophile does not necessarily equal "audiofool".
SC |
I never said that what Lexicon has done is proof of wrongdoing across the board. What I have said is that it's a another piece of evidence on top of a rather large pile that shows that re-badging and upselling is a common practice in the electronics world, especially with "high-end" gear. There's plenty of stuff out there that's built from the ground up that costs more than I could ever afford for electronics, and I think it's awesome that there's people out there that can enjoy it. However I have yet to see a rational explanation as to why slapping someone else's electronics in your own box and jacking the price up by thousands of dollars is a morally acceptable business practice. It would be one thing if these companies came out and said "I'm selling company X's product, with the following /changes/improvements..." and let consumers decide whether the difference is worth it. However they don't, they hide behind carefully phrased marketing jargon and legalese, and I ask why? If they're not doing anything wrong, and everything is on the up and up, why can't they be honest with what they've done? The answer is because you'd see the exact same kind of reaction as you did with the BD30, and it would look bad.
Either way, the practice of building up a false image around something in order to command a better price is no new practice to the electronics world, whether you're talking about cheap stuff or uber expensive stuff.
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| ecrabb wrote: | | Curt Palme wrote: | | Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure. |
He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.
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dpowell
Joined: 10 May 2010
Posts: 5
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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Nice way of resurrecting a thread that's been dead for 4 years. 
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greg_mitch
Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 5320
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| Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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MOD - Please change title to "Got some free speakers...White Van Special!" - then delete this line when you do.
Well I had a garage sale and tried to pawn these off on some unwitting slacker who didn't know any better but $20 was getting interest but no sales. My neighbor was very intersted for his garage...but I sure as heck wasn't going to take money from him.
I got bored as we were packing up and pulled out the screw driver and torx bits. Here is what I found!
Oh crap! What is that little thing in the back?!
Can't believe this thing had a crossover...the drivers must be absolute crap to sound like that..
The construction is waaay better than I would have expected...all the speakers were hooked up and there is some bracing! (probably for shipping and handling so they wouldn't disintegrate!) They added foam and the vent seemed decent.
Well I am gonna see if there is a $60 set of drivers per speaker that I can get from PE and play with these. The cabinets aren't worth much but for $120 and a hobby...it won't be too bad...if I can put it together!
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greg_mitch
Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 5320
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| Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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Looks like I might have to wait until a sale...damn parts alone will be about $100 per speaker...stupid 2x 8" drivers!
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bbfarmht
Joined: 27 May 2006
Posts: 1273
Location: Where the Mississippi runs east to west!!
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| Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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Greg did you check out the speaker buyout items?
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