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New Marquee Bellows Test/install
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Ridebreck



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 943
Location: Colorado Springs, CO

Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 2:37 pm    Post subject:

draganm wrote:
AnalogRocks wrote:
Just remember the Guiness goes in your mouth not in the tube. Laughing
You make this look easy. Thumbs Up

I don't want to give the impression that I drink while working on Projectors or people's circuit boards. If you notice from the pics that was a "Victory Pint" after all the hard work was done. Mr. Green


It's purely medicinal - calms the nerves and all that. Wink

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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY

Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 11:58 am    Post subject:

So Dragan, How are things holding up... I hope the install is doing its job. Has the Silicon cured fully? that stuff is a pain in the Arse!!!!

Athanasios

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"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan

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Mark_A_W



Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 3068
Location: Sunny Melbourne Australia

Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 1:33 pm    Post subject:

Why don't you guys get those housings black anodised so you don't end up with cloudy glycol?

You've fixed the bellows, now fix the housings! (I'm really impressed by the bellows initiative guys.)
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draganm



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado

Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 3:40 pm    Post subject:

Nashou66 wrote:
So Dragan, How are things holding up... I hope the install is doing its job. Has the Silicon cured fully? that stuff is a pain in the Arse!!!!
Athanasios
I've been busy doing board mod's but I will fill the tank tonight or tomorrow. BTW, will you placing a formal order with Apple or are you still waiting for test results?

Mark_A_W wrote:
Why don't you guys get those housings black anodised so you don't end up with cloudy glycol?
You've fixed the bellows, now fix the housings! (I'm really impressed by the bellows initiative guys.)
that's an option, but it would have required me to take apart 2 more pieces that were still glued together. Then take all the parts down to the plating shop, pay to have them stripped of all the old anodize, then re-anodized. The problem with this is you would want to do at least 3 full sets of plates in order to meet the minimum quantity. i'm guerssing around $200. or more for strip + re-plate.
the only part of the plate that corrodes anyway is the #6 fill screw holes. Ideally they should be bigger to insure the anodize penetrates the threads completely. In looking at the 9" tube mounting plate, that piece by itself could easilly be made by itself from 60601-T6 plate. Then take it down and have it anodized would be cheaper without have to strip the old rotten piece.
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY

Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 3:46 pm    Post subject:

draganm wrote:
Nashou66 wrote:
So Dragan, How are things holding up... I hope the install is doing its job. Has the Silicon cured fully? that stuff is a pain in the Arse!!!!
Athanasios
I've been busy doing board mod's but I will fill the tank tonight or tomorrow. BTW, will you placing a formal order with Apple or are you still waiting for test results?

Mark_A_W wrote:
Why don't you guys get those housings black anodised so you don't end up with cloudy glycol?
You've fixed the bellows, now fix the housings! (I'm really impressed by the bellows initiative guys.)
that's an option, but it would have required me to take apart 2 more pieces that were still glued together. Then take all the parts down to the plating shop, pay to have them stripped of all the old anodize, then re-anodized. The problem with this is you would want to do at least 3 full sets of plates in order to meet the minimum quantity. i'm guerssing around $200. or more for strip + re-plate.
the only part of the plate that corrodes anyway is the #6 fill screw holes. Ideally they should be bigger to insure the anodize penetrates the threads completely. In looking at the 9" tube mounting plate, that piece by itself could easilly be made by itself from 60601-T6 plate. Then take it down and have it anodized would be cheaper without have to strip the old rotten piece.


i already placed an order with Dale. I am just anxious and curious to see how our new bellows work Very Happy


Over half of the anodization has come off on the three LC housing i have.... And The paint I tried did not hold up.
So For me i have no choice. But getting the two pieces apart is really hard, i dont want to try to hammer and pry it apart
so i might have to just have the whole thing Anodized.... It might actually look cool to have it all black Wink Hopefully it wont be that much here in Buffalo.


Athanasios

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1031



Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 657
Location: Finland

Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 6:02 pm    Post subject:

I havent talked about this at public yet..But here it goes. I was worried also how that old anodisation will work, screw holes showed allready little corrosion etc..
I "paintet" whole lc-chamber (metal parts that are exposed to glycol) with Hylomar RTV-silicone and that seems to work pretty ok. At least these few months that has worked ok. I pulled small tubing (heat shrink tube) that had RTV around it through those fill holes so there is no exposed metal that glycol can thouch. Part of those fill holes is without that tube so that screw can be installed and when i installed those screws i used little RTV-silicon so that tube inside fill hole is "sealed" with RTV when screw is in its place. Will that hold for long time hard to say yet? time will tell Smile
One thing, that has on my mind that there in not so much heat transfert now because silicone between glycol and metal acts like insulate, but i think that is not big issue.

That black Hylomar was actually quite easy to "paint" to those metal surfaces. I used very small foam paint roller and i leaved nice matte surface.

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draganm



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado

Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 6:17 pm    Post subject:

Nashou66 wrote:
Over half of the anodization has come off on the three LC housing i have.... And The paint I tried did not hold up.So For me i have no choice. But getting the two pieces apart is really hard, i dont want to try to hammer and pry it apart so i might have to just have the whole thing Anodized.... It might actually look cool to have it all black Wink Hopefully it wont be that much here in Buffalo.
Athanasios
trouble is most plating places will not stick old gummed up and corroded crap into their anodizing tanks. Hopefully when they strip it down to bare metal the 2 pieces will seperate.

1031 wrote:
I pulled small tubing (heat shrink tube) that had RTV around it through those fill holes so there is no exposed metal that glycol can thouch. Part of those fill holes is without that tube so that screw can be installed and when i installed those screws i used little RTV-silicon so that tube inside fill hole is "sealed" with RTV when screw is in its place. Will that hold for long time hard to say yet? time will tell Smile One thing, that has on my mind that there in not so much heat transfert now because silicone between glycol and metal acts like insulate, but i think that is not big issue.
That black Hylomar was actually quite easy to "paint" to those metal surfaces. I used very small foam paint roller and i leaved nice matte surface.
Black Epoxy paint has been shown to be excellent and holds up to Glycol no problem. I was also going to fill the screw holes with RTV after filling, hopefully that works well enough to last another 10 years.

Last edited by draganm on Sun Nov 30, 2014 7:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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cmjohnson



Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 5180
Location: Buried under G90s

Posted: Sat May 23, 2009 2:46 am    Post subject:

There are some finishes developed for the gun industry that are insanely tough and extremely chemically resistant. I would recommend Cerrocote if LC parts have to be refinished. Cerrocote is removed by sandblasting. Nothing else, really.

There's also KG Guncote, and there are some pretty incredible baked-on epoxy finishes to look at as well.

For anodizing, I would recommend HARD COAT anodizing, which is considerably tougher than standard anodizing. It's a thicker build of
anodizing and it's harder and has greater chemical resistance.


Compatibility tests SHOULD be performed. It would be very nice to know that the new bellows material doesn't have any nasty
interactions with the glycol or aluminum LC chamber parts, regardless of finish.

Personally, I was thinking that the new bellows would be made of a very high grade of silicone, and was surprised to learn what was
selected. But Apple's chemical engineers know WAY more about this stuff than I do.

CJ
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draganm



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado

Posted: Sat May 23, 2009 3:33 am    Post subject:

cmjohnson wrote:
Personally, I was thinking that the new bellows would be made of a very high grade of silicone, and was surprised to learn what was selected. But Apple's chemical engineers know WAY more about this stuff than I do.

CJ
I spec O-rings quite often and I hate Silicone. It's very porous and the only time it's worth using is for it's high temperature rating and/or very low Shore rating (soft) to comply with irregular surfaces like porous Membranes. EPDM is a much better material for chemical resistance overall by a long shot. Then again i'm not a material scientist either:wink:
Even if the new bellows were slightly inferior to the old ones, which they're not, just the fact that they are once again available is frickin awesome. thanks for the tip on Hard Anodizing, The next tube I dis-assemble I'll take to the plater I normally use and see what he says about it.
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stefuel



Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 3353
Location: Green Harbor MA USA

Posted: Sat May 23, 2009 3:41 am    Post subject:

I would take the chambers minus the tubes to a automotive machine shop and have the areas in question glass beaded to remove the old coating. Then I would find a hobby shop that deals in model airplanes. Ask for spray cans of Dope. This paint stands up to nitromethane. I don't think that projection fluid will touch it. One can of primer and one of flat black should do many couplings.
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A Barco is only a AmPro with training wheels

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km987654



Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 2874
Location: Australia

TV/Projector: Barco BG809s

Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 8:28 am    Post subject:

I have painted a LC tank that had some scratches with a mat black etching primer. I was planning to only use the tube for a short time but as of today that tube is still in the projector and has been now for 6 months. There does not seem to be any apparent reaction as the glycol is still clear.
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY

Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 10:17 am    Post subject:

km987654 wrote:
I have painted a LC tank that had some scratches with a mat black etching primer. I was planning to only use the tube for a short time but as of today that tube is still in the projector and has been now for 6 months. There does not seem to be any apparent reaction as the glycol is still clear.


Do you have the name brand of that primer? I'd like to give it a shot.

Athanasios

_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher


"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan

One Smart Dog!!!

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km987654



Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 2874
Location: Australia

TV/Projector: Barco BG809s

Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 10:26 am    Post subject:

Nashou66 wrote:
km987654 wrote:
I have painted a LC tank that had some scratches with a mat black etching primer. I was planning to only use the tube for a short time but as of today that tube is still in the projector and has been now for 6 months. There does not seem to be any apparent reaction as the glycol is still clear.


Do you have the name brand of that primer? I'd like to give it a shot.

Athanasios


Sure. I will need to find it but give me a day or so and I will post the name.
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY

Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 10:31 am    Post subject:

km987654 wrote:
Nashou66 wrote:
km987654 wrote:
I have painted a LC tank that had some scratches with a mat black etching primer. I was planning to only use the tube for a short time but as of today that tube is still in the projector and has been now for 6 months. There does not seem to be any apparent reaction as the glycol is still clear.


Do you have the name brand of that primer? I'd like to give it a shot.

Athanasios


Sure. I will need to find it but give me a day or so and I will post the name.


No worries as i am on Holidays till the 9th Here in Greece Very Happy

Athanasios

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Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher


"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan

One Smart Dog!!!

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stefuel



Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 3353
Location: Green Harbor MA USA

Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 1:35 pm    Post subject:

That is a good score. Most primers don't adhere well to aluminum. "etching" primers are supposed to work with aluminum.
I have never seen it in black though.

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A Barco is only a AmPro with training wheels

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km987654



Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 2874
Location: Australia

TV/Projector: Barco BG809s

Posted: Mon May 25, 2009 7:36 am    Post subject:

stefuel wrote:
That is a good score. Most primers don't adhere well to aluminum. "etching" primers are supposed to work with aluminum.
I have never seen it in black though.



Spot on Chip the etching primer I used is light grey so I also used an Epoxy Enamel in flat black to finish it. Time plays tricks on your memory. I recall looking for black etching primer but could not find it.

As far as Brands are concerned both are produced by "White Knight". The etching primer is labeled "S.LS. Etch Primer" for aluminium steel and galvanized iron. The epoxy enamel is labeled "superior rust protection".

As mentioned this has currently lasted 6 months and the glycol is till clear.

Hope this helps.
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY

Posted: Mon May 25, 2009 7:59 am    Post subject:

Thanks for the brand name.... i wonder if this would work as well? And would i still use epoxy paint after?

http://www.eastwoodco.com/jump.jsp?itemID=1141&itemType=PRODUCT



Athanasios

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Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher


"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan

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km987654



Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 2874
Location: Australia

TV/Projector: Barco BG809s

Posted: Mon May 25, 2009 8:09 am    Post subject:

You may need to cover the primer with something. The etch primer was necessary to stick to the aluminium but I have no idea if it will resist glycol over time. The epoxy enamel may help here or perhaps something else.
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draganm



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado

Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 8:35 pm    Post subject:

Just a final follow up, I filleld the tube with coolant 2 days ago and everythign is fine. Longer term etsting hopefully over the summer wit hPJ in use.
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Mr. Green



Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Posts: 1394
Location: Calgary

TV/Projector: Marquee 9501LC / NEC 9PG+

Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:18 am    Post subject:

Elaine Benes wrote:
Have you ever tried Fuller's London Porter ?

If you ever get the chance, give it a try, I imagine, seeing that beautiful beer, you'd like it...


I have!!!

It's not as creamy as guiness, but I think the best way to describe it is, Pour a double espresso in your guiness. Wink

It tasted (to me anyways) like it had espresso coffee in it. Very interesting. I liked it, but at $7.00 a bottle, it will be a "once in a blue moon" drink.



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