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menec
Joined: 17 Dec 2008
Posts: 74
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| Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 12:10 am Post subject: |
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I'm using the new CLM with the new DPB, but since the replacement DBP had an older version of the U7 chip, I swapped that.
Both of the CLMs have those tiny LEDs. I think one is red the other one green.
I was thinking about recapping the HDM first (when I have some more free time) and if that doesn't help getting a new replacement board.
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 12:37 am Post subject: |
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ok, you can try that then, heres the info on the reading and writing of data and those led's
The IOP chip is U16 and the CPU is CHip U27, the leds allow visual inspection of the transfers to chips U18,U20 and U9
the Green led lights up when the CPU writes to U20 and the red lights up when the IOP is writing to U18, they turn off when reading is done.
So check to see if they are communicating while making changes, the operational settings and user-adjusted hardware settings are saved to Ram chips U31 and U32.
Not sure if that info will help you but its a start, hopefully its not that complicated. But i am wondering if your allowed to make the changes and they regiter but the retun signal to the CLM is not being sent for storage.. any one else?
Athanasios
_________________
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menec
Joined: 17 Dec 2008
Posts: 74
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| Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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Well, I didn't have time to check the LEDs but (correct me if I'm wrong) I doubt the CLM is the problem, because the issues described exist with two different CLMs (only the U7 chip was the same on both CLMs) and also my guess would be that if the CLM is the culprit then the settings would be reset every time I power up the unit. But this is not the case. From time to time it takes more than two powercycles until the settings get reset.
And I also keep wondering why only the top/bottom pin and key adjustments aren't applied. All other settings seem to be fine.
If anyone has some more ideas - I would be very happy if you post them here 
I ordered the caps for the HDM today and hopefully I can manage to recap the HDM this weekend. If that doesn't work I will probably buy a replacement board.
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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| menec wrote: | Well, I didn't have time to check the LEDs but (correct me if I'm wrong) I doubt the CLM is the problem, because the issues described exist with two different CLMs (only the U7 chip was the same on both CLMs) and also my guess would be that if the CLM is the culprit then the settings would be reset every time I power up the unit. But this is not the case. From time to time it takes more than two powercycles until the settings get reset.
And I also keep wondering why only the top/bottom pin and key adjustments aren't applied. All other settings seem to be fine.
If anyone has some more ideas - I would be very happy if you post them here
I ordered the caps for the HDM today and hopefully I can manage to recap the HDM this weekend. If that doesn't work I will probably buy a replacement board. |
Ahhh, ok those wave forms are generated by the VDM also so look there if you can.
EDIT: Just read you changed those boards, hmm i wonder if its something with the ribbon cable even though you looked at it closely, I am pretty sure the two ribbon cables are the same for thew CVA and VDM swap them around and see if you loose and convergence and if you gain the key and pin back.
Also on the daughter board for the HDM look around chip U507 for any suspicious looking components, resistors, caps etc.
Athanasios
_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
One Smart Dog!!!
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Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
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menec
Joined: 17 Dec 2008
Posts: 74
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| Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 9:31 am Post subject: |
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Recapping the HDM didn't improve the situation. Still the same problem: after some powercycles top and bottom key/pin settings are lost.
This is with the original boards on the heatsink! I have a spare heatsink with all the boards lying around and I will try to swap the complete unit to see if that helps in any way.
The daughter board on the HDM (with chip U507 on it) seems to be fine. We swapped the caps on that board anyway, but as I said it didn't solve the problem.
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:15 am Post subject: |
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| menec wrote: |
If anyone has some more ideas - I would be very happy if you post them here
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Well, there's a lot that could be wrong with that board, and to simply post each component to try one at a time would only frustrate you more. And that's something I don't like doing, because it's not the best approach to fixing that board because of its complex nature.
Board design and board traces on that HDM is the main reason to NOT do a lot of unnecessary soldering. It is way to easy to damage the board in the process of repair attempts.
There are a few things to try when the board is suspect. And they were mentioned earlier in the posts. Beyond them, send it to Curt. You would not likely have the failed components on hand, nor would want to order a single part based on every recommendation that could be posted here. Just think of the time and frustration involved in doing it that way.
I repair these boards and have been doing so almost since 1996. I have a ton of parts, bulletins, test gear, etc, etc. And at times I still get a headache trying to solve some of the complex problems that these boards can have.
Again, the HDM is very easy to damage its traces from unnecessary repair attempts, so rather than risk destroying the board, send it to Curt. That way you would get it fixed and at the same time have it upgraded to whatever else it may need.
btw, I don't offer or have taking board repairs from the forums. I send every request for repairs to Curt.
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J Kildare
Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 164
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| Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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Does this affect the internal test pattern?
If you can, try swapping the VIM.
A while back I swapped out an 03 vim which worked perfect for an MP modded 03 vim. Within the first 2 or 3 shut downs I noticed that my side pin would go out of wack occasionally, which I figured was a quirk of the mods. This had never happened before, so I took note of it. As this really doesn't happen very often I have not even bothered swapping back. It looks like it could be 20 clicks out, but one click and it pops back to where it was previously.
If you do not have another vim I could swap mine, but results may not be real reliable as this doesn't happen regularly.
I would have first thought the CLM, but I have also since changed that and the results are still the same.
Jim
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Sparky015
Joined: 12 May 2009
Posts: 1185
Location: Cleveland / Akron, OH
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| Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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| J Kildare wrote: | Does this affect the internal test pattern?
If you can, try swapping the VIM.
A while back I swapped out an 03 vim which worked perfect for an MP modded 03 vim. Within the first 2 or 3 shut downs I noticed that my side pin would go out of wack occasionally, which I figured was a quirk of the mods. This had never happened before, so I took note of it. As this really doesn't happen very often I have not even bothered swapping back. It looks like it could be 20 clicks out, but one click and it pops back to where it was previously.
If you do not have another vim I could swap mine, but results may not be real reliable as this doesn't happen regularly.
I would have first thought the CLM, but I have also since changed that and the results are still the same.
Jim |
Jim,
Not to get off topic of the original thread, but what you described sounds like you don't have the snap fix bulletin done to your new modded VIM. You may want to check that. I had an Marquee 8000 PJ '95 vintage with an 03 VIM that did the same thing. The bulletin can be found on curt's site under the Marquee manuals, or you may want to contact mp if you got the modded VIM from him. Not sure if he does the bulletins at the same time as his mods. If memory serves, VIMs older than '98 vintage have the issue.
Paul
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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Jim tht's really strange, AFAIK the VIM is completely outside the geometry circuits? Geometry controls are generated on the CLM and sent to the Deflection modules as DC offsets to the yokes for raster centering and as convergence waveforms to the CVA .
I guess it's possible that some voltage instability on the low power rails like 5 and 15V caused at the VIM could affect the CLM? These problems are very hard to find and isolate, I've had a set of boards here from Denmark i'm trying to nail down and it seems almost impossible. The suggestion to send a bad board to Curt is an excellent one and I would be running to the post office if I just knew WHICH frickin board was the problem 
The really bad news is that more and more of these mystery problems are popping up on the forums. They're furstrating enough even for people who know the MArquee, I can see where it could drive a person who is strictly a user to switch to a brand new little 1080P plastic box.
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Sparky015
Joined: 12 May 2009
Posts: 1185
Location: Cleveland / Akron, OH
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tse
Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 1014
Location: Sweatbucket, Fl.
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| Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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| draganm wrote: | Jim tht's really strange, AFAIK the VIM is completely outside the geometry circuits? Geometry controls are generated on the CLM and sent to the Deflection modules as DC offsets to the yokes for raster centering and as convergence waveforms to the CVA .
I guess it's possible that some voltage instability on the low power rails like 5 and 15V caused at the VIM could affect the CLM? These problems are very hard to find and isolate, I've had a set of boards here from Denmark i'm trying to nail down and it seems almost impossible. The suggestion to send a bad board to Curt is an excellent one and I would be running to the post office if I just knew WHICH frickin board was the problem
The really bad news is that more and more of these mystery problems are popping up on the forums. They're furstrating enough even for people who know the MArquee, I can see where it could drive a person who is strictly a user to switch to a brand new little 1080P plastic box. |
There are two control busses in the Marquee. The I2C bus and another serial bus. They go all through the projector. When developing the split pack projectors the bus lines were extended 6' or 10' between boxes. That really caused some strange things to happen. For instance you could be adjusting the contrast up and the h size would suddenly jump to max or the green stig setting could jump to some extreme totally killing the green focus. There is a bunch of noise on the busses and sometimes some chip would think that it was being addressed when it was an entirely different chip being told what to do. If you look at a fairly modern VIM bd you will see two small axial caps soldered over top of a chip. (Sorry, I don't have schematics on my new computer yet so I don't know the IC designation.) Those were a "patch" from Electrohome trying to fix the problem. One end of the caps are tied together and go to ground. Lift the other end of the cap and attach a small 100 ohm resistor between the lifted end and the original IC pin that the caps were attached to. That help to fix the problems on the split pack projectors. A slightly better "patch'.
Scott
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"Were we directed from Washington when to sow and when to reap, we would soon want bread."
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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| tse wrote: | | draganm wrote: | Jim tht's really strange, AFAIK the VIM is completely outside the geometry circuits? Geometry controls are generated on the CLM and sent to the Deflection modules as DC offsets to the yokes for raster centering and as convergence waveforms to the CVA .
I guess it's possible that some voltage instability on the low power rails like 5 and 15V caused at the VIM could affect the CLM? These problems are very hard to find and isolate, I've had a set of boards here from Denmark i'm trying to nail down and it seems almost impossible. The suggestion to send a bad board to Curt is an excellent one and I would be running to the post office if I just knew WHICH frickin board was the problem
The really bad news is that more and more of these mystery problems are popping up on the forums. They're furstrating enough even for people who know the MArquee, I can see where it could drive a person who is strictly a user to switch to a brand new little 1080P plastic box. |
There are two control busses in the Marquee. The I2C bus and another serial bus. They go all through the projector. When developing the split pack projectors the bus lines were extended 6' or 10' between boxes. That really caused some strange things to happen. For instance you could be adjusting the contrast up and the h size would suddenly jump to max or the green stig setting could jump to some extreme totally killing the green focus. There is a bunch of noise on the busses and sometimes some chip would think that it was being addressed when it was an entirely different chip being told what to do. If you look at a fairly modern VIM bd you will see two small axial caps soldered over top of a chip. (Sorry, I don't have schematics on my new computer yet so I don't know the IC designation.) Those were a "patch" from Electrohome trying to fix the problem. One end of the caps are tied together and go to ground. Lift the other end of the cap and attach a small 100 ohm resistor between the lifted end and the original IC pin that the caps were attached to. That help to fix the problems on the split pack projectors. A slightly better "patch'.
Scott |
That be Chip U35 Scott correct? heres a pic it inthe upper center/left , you can see the two ceramic caps over the chip.
Athanasios
_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
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Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
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tse
Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 1014
Location: Sweatbucket, Fl.
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| Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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Yep, that's it.
You know boards can be damaged with static discharge? Setting boards on cloth is a good way to do it.
Scott
_________________
"Were we directed from Washington when to sow and when to reap, we would soon want bread."
Thomas Jefferson
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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| tse wrote: | Yep, that's it.
You know boards can be damaged with static discharge? Setting boards on cloth is a good way to do it.
Scott |
I should have known better... and you know what, that pic was taken right when i got the Longbows, and it was that board that had the bad AD835 chip!!! So thats how it probably went bad!!!!
Athanasios
_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
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PaulB
Joined: 26 Oct 2007
Posts: 359
Location: Bonnie (but rainy) Scotland
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| Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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I think that should be U10 with the ceramics. U35 is top right in that picture.
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Paul
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 6:12 am Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | I should have known better... and you know what, that pic was taken right when i got the Longbows, and it was that board that had the bad AD835 chip!!! So thats how it probably went bad!!!!
Athanasios |
yeah next time just put on some fluffly socks, run around on Shag carpet, and then start taking the machine apart why don't ya? 
| Quote: | If you look at a fairly modern VIM bd you will see two small axial caps soldered over top of a chip. (Sorry, I don't have schematics on my new computer yet so I don't know the IC designation.) Those were a "patch" from Electrohome trying to fix the problem. One end of the caps are tied together and go to ground. Lift the other end of the cap and attach a small 100 ohm resistor between the lifted end and the original IC pin that the caps were attached to. That help to fix the problems on the split pack projectors. A slightly better "patch'.
Scott |
is this something that would be good to do to all older VIM's, like the typical 1995/96 versions we usually see floating around?
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menec
Joined: 17 Dec 2008
Posts: 74
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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Finally! Problem seems to be solved! 
Culprit was....... *drumroll* ...... the Vertical Board on the rear heatsink.
To tell a long story short: While recapping all the other boards we discovered some strange "mods" on the Vertical Board. The previous owner of this unit did some strange soldering job on this board and swapped around 10 resistors.
We put in another Vertical Board and (after adding the necessary cable bridges, caps etc to the new board) all seems to be fine.
I'll open up a new thread the next days. Maybe somebody around here knows what kind of "improvement" was implemented on the non-working Vertical Board and how to get it back to life.
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:54 am Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | | menec wrote: | Well, I didn't have time to check the LEDs but (correct me if I'm wrong) I doubt the CLM is the problem, because the issues described exist with two different CLMs (only the U7 chip was the same on both CLMs) and also my guess would be that if the CLM is the culprit then the settings would be reset every time I power up the unit. But this is not the case. From time to time it takes more than two powercycles until the settings get reset.
And I also keep wondering why only the top/bottom pin and key adjustments aren't applied. All other settings seem to be fine.
If anyone has some more ideas - I would be very happy if you post them here
I ordered the caps for the HDM today and hopefully I can manage to recap the HDM this weekend. If that doesn't work I will probably buy a replacement board. |
Ahhh, ok those wave forms are generated by the VDM also so look there if you can.
EDIT: Just read you changed those boards, hmm i wonder if its something with the ribbon cable even though you looked at it closely, I am pretty sure the two ribbon cables are the same for thew CVA and VDM swap them around and see if you loose and convergence and if you gain the key and pin back.
Also on the daughter board for the HDM look around chip U507 for any suspicious looking components, resistors, caps etc.
Athanasios |
I said that earlier but you said you changed those boards and still the same problem?
Well lets hope it stays away this time !!
Nashou
_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
One Smart Dog!!!
Marquee High Performance Bellows now shipping!!
Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
Marquee C-element and Bellow removal
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J Kildare
Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 164
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| Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 2:27 am Post subject: |
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Take a look @ TB95-07 (Symptom 4)
Jim
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menec
Joined: 17 Dec 2008
Posts: 74
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| Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: |
I said that earlier but you said you changed those boards and still the same problem?
Well lets hope it stays away this time !!
Nashou |
I know you said that earlier - and I also changed the boards and still had the same problems I think the reason for this was that I changed the complete rear heatsink with the one from my second PJ. What I didn't realize when I swapped heatsinks was that the boards were slightly different. This was missing on the replacement board:
Without these modifications the signals from the CLM probably never made it to their correct destination and I didn't see any improvement.
@J Kildare: I skimmed over the TB you referenced but the mods on our Vertical Board seem to be different
@all: I opened another thread where you can see close-up pics of the replaced resistors. I suspect those mods to cause the trouble I had (and I can probably rule out bad caps since I replace them with new nichicons).
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