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RogueChili
Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Posts: 162
Location: Westfield, MA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 9:35 pm Post subject: HELP WITH 1292 STACK |
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I have two 92's ready to rock an roll!! I am interested in stacking them side by side however preliminary testing results are not positive. The angle on each unit required to center the images produces trapezoid like frames. I didn't think it was a big deal until I couldn't find the appropriate adjustment, in the diagnostics menus, to correct it. I know someone here has two G90's side by side so I assume it can be done with the 92's unless the 90's have special parameters for side stacking.
I would appreciate any information on this issue.
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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overclkr
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 4227
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| Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 12:21 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, if the 1292 firmware is anything like the 12XX series, I don't think a side by side can be done?
Cliff
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:10 am Post subject: |
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H KEY - Horizontal keystone is the biggie. The 12xx has it... It's just a matter of whether the controls have enough range to correct the distortion, and even if it does, whether it will be stable.
Chili, even if the 1292 has the geometry control range and convergence stability to do it, it's going to be a chunk of work just to get the geometry good on ONE machine, let alone get another machine converged to the first. Focus will also be a bitch - especially if you haven't mastered Scheimpflug already with one machine, setup normally.
IIRC, you're a bit of a newbie to CRT PJs, right? How many complete setups have you done at this point? I'm not asking to be an ass - Just saying that you have a bit of an uphill battle ahead of you. OK, actually a steep uphill battle. 
SC
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stefuel
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 3353
Location: Green Harbor MA USA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:38 am Post subject: |
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I agree with Buster the body crabb on this one. If you have not really mastered the setup of one CRT and I mean more than just sorta comfortable, you're apt to cause more harm then good. With all the years of being on this and AVS forum, I can't count on both hands and feet how many have damaged their projectors just trying to learn how to set up one projector.
_________________
Chip
A Barco is only a AmPro with training wheels
Card carrying member of the AVS chain gang.
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RogueChili
Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Posts: 162
Location: Westfield, MA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: | H KEY - Horizontal keystone is the biggie. The 12xx has it... It's just a matter of whether the controls have enough range to correct the distortion, and even if it does, whether it will be stable.
Chili, even if the 1292 has the geometry control range and convergence stability to do it, it's going to be a chunk of work just to get the geometry good on ONE machine, let alone get another machine converged to the first. Focus will also be a bitch - especially if you haven't mastered Scheimpflug already with one machine, setup normally.
IIRC, you're a bit of a newbie to CRT PJs, right? How many complete setups have you done at this point? I'm not asking to be an ass - Just saying that you have a bit of an uphill battle ahead of you. OK, actually a steep uphill battle.
SC |
The cautionary remarks are welcomed and appreciated. Yes, the keystone was my first attempt however after a short time I realized that was not a good solution. As you mentioned, it looked like the controls would end up near their limits. When I do a setup I like everything to be as close to center values as possible.
Newbie! In human years yes, however in projector years I'm an old man! I don't want to admit how many hours I have labored over all the setup techniques.
Let me ask this, will changing the geometry between the tube and lens surfaces correct the trapezoidal distortion? The 92 has rings allowing for this geometric change. I would like to get the overall geometry of the test pattern correct by using mechanical adjustments first then fine tune with electronic adjustments.
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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jkruger
Joined: 24 Oct 2007
Posts: 2435
Location: Carlsbad, CA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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How loud would two 1292's be?
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RogueChili
Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Posts: 162
Location: Westfield, MA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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| jkruger wrote: | | How loud would two 1292's be? |
What?
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dochlywd
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 346
Location: Saint Louis, Missouri
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| Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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Innnn-Cominnnnnnnnnnnng!
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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| RogueChili wrote: | | Let me ask this, will changing the geometry between the tube and lens surfaces correct the trapezoidal distortion? The 92 has rings allowing for this geometric change. I would like to get the overall geometry of the test pattern correct by using mechanical adjustments first then fine tune with electronic adjustments. |
Athanasios was right - the rings are stepless Scheimpflug rings. The rings adjust the angular relationship between the lens and tube, which affects focus, not geometry.
If you're nearing the limit of the H KEY and you still haven't corrected the distortion, then A) The 1292 won't have enough control range to do the stack or B) Your screen size (for a stack) is too small. What size screen are trying to do? With two 9" machines (even a 1292), you should probably be doing at least a 10', if not 12' wide image. Both because you'll have plenty of brightness, and because the longer your throw, the smaller the geometric distortion you need to correct. Plus, let's face it... If you're not going to a bigger screen and you're just staying down around 8 or 9' wide, then there's no reason to have TWO hovercraft in your room drowning out the audio!
That's one advantage of a 1292 stack... Think of all the money you'll save on nice audio gear. You may need amplifiers, though to overcome the drone of the 1292's.
SC
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RogueChili
Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Posts: 162
Location: Westfield, MA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: |
- Just saying that you have a bit of an uphill battle ahead of you. OK, actually a steep uphill battle.
SC |
I did a little experimenting and your not kidding a steep uphill battle. I reset back to previous settings, converged at center, and noticed the horizontal center line was skewed. Using shims under the projector, I set the line horizontal. This correction allowed the keystone, in conjunction with the linearity, functions to true up the pattern without approaching the limits. The next problem is getting the focus constant across the projection area. This could be tricky to say the least, you could spend days tweaking the Scheimpflug rings. So, plan "B" is to create an equation working backwards from the Scheimpflug setup table listed in the sony installation manual. This equation would allow the creation of a new table for the projector off angle, it may not be perfect but should be close. And then there is plan "C", get a real projector!
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CRT_Ben
Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 1684
Location: Northern Virginia
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| Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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| RogueChili wrote: | | I did a little experimenting and your not kidding a steep uphill battle. I reset back to previous settings, converged at center, and noticed the horizontal center line was skewed. Using shims under the projector, I set the line horizontal. |
Waiiiit a second here. If your center line is not level then you need to rotate your deflection yokes, not shim the PJ. But you should know that?
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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| CRT_Ben wrote: | | RogueChili wrote: | | I did a little experimenting and your not kidding a steep uphill battle. I reset back to previous settings, converged at center, and noticed the horizontal center line was skewed. Using shims under the projector, I set the line horizontal. |
Waiiiit a second here. If your center line is not level then you need to rotate your deflection yokes, not shim the PJ. But you should know that? |
Not necessarily......... projector 101.......1st.....level your projector.......
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RogueChili
Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Posts: 162
Location: Westfield, MA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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Projector 101? I must have slept through that one! Seriously, I hope rotating the coils have the same effect as tilting the pj, it will make it much simpler to mount. The shim was a quick and dirty method for evaluation by squaring up the trapezoid in the projection area. The line is horizontal when the pj is level and centered but skews when the pj is level, off center and angled. Who new!
Plan "C" looking better every second!
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Mark_A_W
Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 3068
Location: Sunny Melbourne Australia
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| Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 2:52 am Post subject: |
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| jkruger wrote: | | How loud would two 1292's be? |
Reminds me of when I was in 'Nam
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 4:40 am Post subject: |
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| Mark_A_W wrote: | | jkruger wrote: | | How loud would two 1292's be? |
Reminds me of when I was in 'Nam |
I love the smell of Glycol in the morning!
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RogueChili
Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Posts: 162
Location: Westfield, MA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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The bright side; they add a sense of realism during Apocalypse Now!
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CRT_Ben
Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 1684
Location: Northern Virginia
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| Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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| macgyver655 wrote: | | CRT_Ben wrote: | | Waiiiit a second here. If your center line is not level then you need to rotate your deflection yokes, not shim the PJ. But you should know that? |
Not necessarily......... projector 101.......1st.....level your projector....... |
Well yes, I guess I made the assumption that the initial mechanical setup was good, maybe that was a bad assumption. He did say he was experienced in the ways of doing setup...
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RogueChili
Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Posts: 162
Location: Westfield, MA
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| Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 12:21 am Post subject: |
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| CRT_Ben wrote: | | macgyver655 wrote: | | CRT_Ben wrote: | | Waiiiit a second here. If your center line is not level then you need to rotate your deflection yokes, not shim the PJ. But you should know that? |
Not necessarily......... projector 101.......1st.....level your projector....... |
Well yes, I guess I made the assumption that the initial mechanical setup was good, maybe that was a bad assumption. He did say he was experienced in the ways of doing setup... |
Yes! I found it it the sony supplemental manual in the section "Proper Mechanical Setup When Stacking 1292's", however it is recommended to rotate the deflection coils 90 degrees and mount the projectors vertically and juxtaposed??
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