CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

stgdz · Joined: 07 Dec 2008 Posts: 107

I personally don't have much experience with digital projectos, the only experience I have is an old DLP that our office uses. With that being said I have looked at the RS20 reviews on the web and looked at screen shots but I haven't seen on in person.

With that being said I was reading over the RS20 review at HTguide, http://htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=32672 ,and I looked at one of the screenshots and for some reason it didn't have that same depth look that I get with my crt.

This is the screenshot I first noticed it in
http://www.projectorreviews.com/images-projectors-q1-09/JVC_DLA-RS20_DarkKnight_joker_large.jpg
and the thing that sticks out of me is that his face and the jacket appear flat to me and they are almost on the same plane.

I looked at some others
http://www.projectorreviews.com/images-projectors-q1-09/JVC_DLA-RS20_indianajones_waterfall_large.jpg this one it doesn't appear that the the water in the back is behind the falls but it appears at the same plane.

This sport shot also looks like the top and bottom of the field are level http://www.projectorreviews.com/images-projectors-q1-09/JVC_DLA-RS20_hdtv_football4_large.jpg

I am viewing this through an lcd monitor and it may be different in person but am I missing something with the images? They look tack sharp but don't really have depth to me. I first noticed the depth(3d) that people talk about with CRT's in black and white videos and now I am starting to notice it more and more with color.

perisoft · Joined: 29 Aug 2007 Posts: 2920 Location: Ithaca, NY

How the hell do you expect to tell that a digital projector is 'flat' when you're looking at the image it projected after it's been sucked into a digital camera, compressed, transmitted, and displayed on an LCD screen?

You might as well try to judge whether CDs are better than LPs by listening to a recording that was MP3 compressed to 96kbits and played back on a boom box.

A good screenshot of a digital projector projected in the right environment will be nigh-on *identical* to the raw source material in the bluray disc. Pretensions to "oh, this jacket is 3D on this screenshot and not in the other" are pretty close to delusional.

emdawgz1 · Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 7949

Buying a digital pj is a minefield. Most mid-fi shops either..

a. Dont have a pj setup.
b. have one setup, but it doesnt have hd sources
c have one setup but its sharing sources w/ 15 other displays so god only knows what signal its getting.
d have it setup but they only show "The Simpsons" hd so you have no idea what it looks like w/ other material.

What are you gonna do??? Confused

ecrabb · Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 3:24 pm Post subject:

Go to a home theater meet, John! I'm sure there are some AVS guys that have meets several times a year within a short drive of your home - probably even more often than that given how close you are to a bunch of big cities out there!

Yes, stores usually suck. Very few have anything close to a setup that any of us would want. One local dealer here has a very expensive setup with a Stewart scope screen, anamorphic lens, and a very expensive DLP projector... Probably a $50,000 setup... And I literally wouldn't trade my $1000 setup for it.

Perisoft is exactly right. You simply can NOT judge the relative merits of one projector over another looking at screen shots. It's directly comparable to comparing speakers and room sound by listening to an mp3 from a web site - and nobody would be silly enough to do that. Screenshots are for entertainment purposes. Period.

The RS20 and even the RS2 do an excellent black (though not pure black), and they do it without crushing the low-IRE portion of the signal - something which you can NOT do with your CRT adjusted to do true black - not even with low-level gamma boost. Compared to a high-end 9" machine, focus and sharpness is as good or better CRT projectors, and compared to all CRT projectors, ANSI (in-scene) contrast is superior, uniformity is superior, brightness is superior, and of course the machine is smaller and quieter. The RS20 isn't even far off in the "film-like" department, as you have to be well inside 1x screen width to see pixels, and that's on a bright scene.

Other issues aside (issues true of any new electronics), digital has pretty much arrived in terms of picture quality. Do yourself a favor and go to an home theater meet and take a look at somebody's well set-up (calibrated) digital - preferably on a scope screen. Don't be surprised if you walk away thinking CRT ain't "all that" any more.

SC

**AnalogRocks** · Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 3:31 pm Post subject:

perisoft · Joined: 29 Aug 2007 Posts: 2920 Location: Ithaca, NY

emdawgz1 · Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 7949

ecrabb · Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 3:46 pm Post subject:

It's based on fact, Jeremy. You simply can't adjust the projector's G2 low enough to get a perfect 0 IRE black, then still have a perfectly linear response from 1-10 IRE. You just can't come out of black fast enough and still stay linear. So, you have to compromise. Don't get me wrong - with low level gamma boost you can get close, but it's still not perfect.

SC

perisoft · Joined: 29 Aug 2007 Posts: 2920 Location: Ithaca, NY

ecrabb · Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 3:55 pm Post subject:

ecrabb · Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 3:57 pm Post subject:

**AnalogRocks** · Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 4:21 pm Post subject:

ecrabb · Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 4:31 pm Post subject:

I know what you're talking about, Jeremy. 3 years ago, I HATED skin on practically all DLP and LCD projectors at any price. Literally green pixels where there was clearly no green to be seen. Wouldn't have paid a dollar for most of those machines. The HC5000 is an entry level budget 1080p machine that sacrifices image quality to come at that price point with 1080p. A machine like that would indeed be a downgrade in most ways for most of us here. But, using that as example is like saying CRT sucks because you saw DVD on an ECP one time.

Have you ever seen a calibrated LCoS or SXRD machine? How about on a scope screen through an anamorph lens? I'll tell you - it's a site to behold.

SC

**AnalogRocks** · Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 4:53 pm Post subject:

ecrabb · Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 4:57 pm Post subject:

Shouldn't you really be eschewing DVD's and even BD's then in favor of the more analog Laserdisc, VHS and S-VHS?

Wink

SC

**AnalogRocks** · Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 5:01 pm Post subject:

perisoft · Joined: 29 Aug 2007 Posts: 2920 Location: Ithaca, NY

emdawgz1 · Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 7949

**kal** · Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:11 pm Post subject:

WanMan · Joined: 19 Mar 2006 Posts: 10270