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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008 Posts: 4269 Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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| Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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I doubt it is the card, but you never know
craigr
_________________ JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
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Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
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Phone: 865-405-6892
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boingo
Joined: 01 Mar 2009 Posts: 60
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| Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 5:37 am Post subject: |
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Craig
I just tried my old Sanyo big ol projector..it has HD 15 (VGA) and RGB/HV and Component inputs.
The DVD player would not display when Progressive was chosen....I think this is case closed !
As said the projector is about the same spec and DOM as the big ol Sony VPLX2000
One bit of good news...the noise I could see when using the Laptop to play a DVD ...its just its poor graphics card causing the noise ...I tried my spare PC which has a 128 bit 256mb card and its sweet...
One question I have left ...
What refresh rate can I set the graphics card to when using the Sony or and the Sanyo...I did set it to 75 hertz and it looked a lot better..but whats the max rate..anny one know ?
Cheers
And Thanks to those that help for their time
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007 Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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| boingo wrote: | Craig
I just tried my old Sanyo big ol projector..it has HD 15 (VGA) and RGB/HV and Component inputs.
The DVD player would not display when Progressive was chosen....I think this is case closed !
As said the projector is about the same spec and DOM as the big ol Sony VPLX2000
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Or there is something wrong with the DVD player, lol.
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boingo
Joined: 01 Mar 2009 Posts: 60
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| Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 2:01 am Post subject: |
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Aye... also tried a HD Digital Set Top Box 480p 576p 720p all no show on both Projectors..
Just need to figure at what Hz graphics card refresh rate I can push the Sony...anyone any ideas ? Currently 75Hz not brave enough to go higher
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boingo
Joined: 01 Mar 2009 Posts: 60
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| Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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Looking at the brochure again a bit more closely...I believe the Sony VPLX2000 Projector can do up to a 120hz refresh rate.
So just checking Im right or wrong .....
In the spec table there is an entry named fV 50-120Hz and fH 15kHz-94kHz...is the fV value what is known as the refresh rate ?
Almost the last question..... this projector uses the IFB cards does that mean I could use the Sony HDMI Moome Input Card ?
If so this would give me Digital IN and a sharper picture ?
https://www.curtpalme.com/forum_archived/viewtopic.php@t=7563.html
Or a HD Fury ?
TIA
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HaydnG90
Joined: 22 May 2006 Posts: 1356
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| Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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| boingo wrote: | Looking at the brochure again a bit more closely...I believe the Sony VPLX2000 Projector can do up to a 120hz refresh rate.
So just checking Im right or wrong .....
In the spec table there is an entry named fV 50-120Hz and fH 15kHz-94kHz...is the fV value what is known as the refresh rate ?
Almost the last question..... this projector uses the IFB cards does that mean I could use the Sony HDMI Moome Input Card ?
If so this would give me Digital IN and a sharper picture ?
https://www.curtpalme.com/forum_archived/viewtopic.php@t=7563.html
Or a HD Fury ?
TIA |
I don't see why not.
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008 Posts: 4269 Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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| Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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| boingo wrote: | Looking at the brochure again a bit more closely...I believe the Sony VPLX2000 Projector can do up to a 120hz refresh rate.
So just checking Im right or wrong .....
In the spec table there is an entry named fV 50-120Hz and fH 15kHz-94kHz...is the fV value what is known as the refresh rate ?
Almost the last question..... this projector uses the IFB cards does that mean I could use the Sony HDMI Moome Input Card ?
If so this would give me Digital IN and a sharper picture ?
https://www.curtpalme.com/forum_archived/viewtopic.php@t=7563.html
Or a HD Fury ?
TIA |
I'd just try a higher rate if it were my projector. I highly doubt you will hurt it.
fV is pretty much the refresh rate.
Even if your projector accepts multiple refresh rates, it still may internally convert them all to one single refresh rate for display. Some digital projectors have a "native" refresh rate so no matter what refresh you input the projected image is always the same refresh. I don't know about this projector.
I think you can almost certainly use a Moome IFB. But again, the Moome will convert the digital HDMI to analog RGBHV. Therefor you will still have a D/A/D conversion. The only difference is where said conversion takes place.
craigr
_________________ JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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boingo
Joined: 01 Mar 2009 Posts: 60
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| Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 12:56 am Post subject: |
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Thanks CR
This projector displays looks betterer as I increase the refresh rate.
Will push it to 120Hz and see if she smokes out
CR
Please could you explain the D/A/D conversion...I believe you of course..yet I just want to understand more.
I had been thinking there would be no Analogue conversion if using a moome...where/why is this happening ..apologies for the silly question.
Do the Sony CRT Projectors have to do D/A/D as well with a Moome ?
In the end would using a Moome card make the display betterer ?...or the same as an RGBHV input ?..(if RGBHV input.. would be one less process A-->D.. I guess..so would it be betterer)
As before ..thanks heaps again for your time !
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008 Posts: 4269 Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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| Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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| boingo wrote: | Thanks CR
This projector displays looks betterer as I increase the refresh rate.
Will push it to 120Hz and see if she smokes out
CR
Please could you explain the D/A/D conversion...I believe you of course..yet I just want to understand more.
I had been thinking there would be no Analogue conversion if using a moome...where/why is this happening ..apologies for the silly question.
Do the Sony CRT Projectors have to do D/A/D as well with a Moome ?
In the end would using a Moome card make the display betterer ?...or the same as an RGBHV input ?..(if RGBHV input.. would be one less process A-->D.. I guess..so would it be betterer)
As before ..thanks heaps again for your time ! |
CRT displays are analog, thus they run in the analog domain. The Moome card takes HDMI and converts it into RGBHV (D/A). An analog CRT display then directly uses the analog RGBHV provided by the Moome. There is no need to ever convert the signal back to digital.
Your situation is different because you are running a digital display. Thus before the projector can display an analog image it must be converted to digital.
Early digital projectors like yours often did not have a digital input because there weren't many (or any) sources that provided such a signal. Don't forget, your projector predates DVI so the only possible digital input would be SDI. Most projectors don't have an SDI input.
As I said, there is an SDI-IFB, but this will work just like the Moome because it is designed to take digital SDI and convert it to analog. Again, the SDI board was designed primarily to link up to a CRT projector.
Furthermore, even later digital projectors had the same handicap that yours does even when digital projectors first were given digital inputs. Indeed, many early digital projectors with DVI literally took the DVI digital signal, converted it to analog inside the projector for processing in the analog domain, and then back to digital. So even if your projector did have a DVI input it still would have converted the digital signal to analog internally.
This was done as a design and cost saving measure. When digital inputs were first available analog signal chains (sources) were still king. Manufacturers did not want to have to run two parallel signal paths inside the projector (one for analog and one for digital) so they just converted digital signals to analog for processing, and then back to digital.
Depending on how your system works will dictate if a Moome card can improve the image on your projector. I tend to think not if you provide a good solid analog input to your rig. Really the only way to know is to try it, but I am doubtful...
One situation where a Moome would help is if you run a VP which you optimize for the projector. If you set the VP to output the native resolution of your projector through RGBHV your scaling will be done by the VP and all the projector should have to do is convert the analog to digital. A Moome would help here because you would have less D/A/D/A/D conversions through the entire signal chain...
...so if you hook a BD player to the VP up through DVI, the BD to VP does not have to be converted to analog before, during, or after the VP processing. In other words, the BD signal will stay digital until it hits the Moome board. So with a BD player through DVI, to a VP, to a Moome, to the projector you will have D/A/D.
Now if you take the BD player and hook it to the VP though component you have another conversion because the VP will have to take the analog and convert back to digital. With a VP and no Moome you have D/A/D/A/D.
What you should do all depends on what you want to accomplish. This projector is not exactly state of the art and I personally wouldn't have much interest in spending a lot of money on it. However, to each his own and you may be having fun with the thing and in that case you may decide to put some money into it.
The cheapest solution I think is a simple HTPC with RGBHV output to the projector. You can set the HTPC to output the native resolution of the projector and achieve the minimum D/A/D conversion. Personally I hate HTPC's so if I were going to keep the projector I would probably get a Moome or HDF to avoid a HTPC. You could incidentally do this on the cheap with an HDF version one and VP as well
craigr
_________________ JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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boingo
Joined: 01 Mar 2009 Posts: 60
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| Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks CR
Its what I figured...feared ! lol
Its a shame but one cant make it betterer than what it is
Thanks again for your time ...much appreciated...very appreciated
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008 Posts: 4269 Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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| Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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| boingo wrote: | Let me take a stab at explaining this to me self : )
An LCD Projector is essentially a Digital device....the Sony LC VPLX2000 is one such device
At the time of its creation (DOM 1999) only Analogue inputs existed (mostly)
Therefore it is populated with Analogue Input Cards such as RGBHV.
The 'Moome' takes a Digital Input (HDMI) and converts to Analogue(RGBHV)..because it is designed for CRT Projectors.
Therefore if installed in the Sony LCD Digital VPLX2000 projector... the moome would be doing D-->A and the Projector would then do the A-->D conversion. Thus a lot of processing D/A/D |
Exactly
| boingo wrote: | | What I would need for the best picture is a Digital Input Card without Analog conversion (SDI ?) |
Yes to the first part, no to the SDI part. The SDI card works just like the Moome (D/A) so it provides no help.
| boingo wrote: | | Or is it that this projector (even though its digital) cannot accept a straight Digital input....(would an SDI Card still do Analogue conversion?) |
Exactly. The SDI card would still convert to analog. I don't think there is a way to bypass the analog processing in your projector. Do you have a manual or service manual for your projector you can email me? I could have a look.
| boingo wrote: | Please have I explained this (almost) correctly ?
Cheers |
I think you get it
craigr
_________________ JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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boingo
Joined: 01 Mar 2009 Posts: 60
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| Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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Craig
I will pass you the service manual on the projector. Thanks Again.
Cheers
Ive got it now..with your help thanks !..was all a bit of puzzle but now the pieces are in place
Hope other newbies that read this get some understanding as well
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boingo
Joined: 01 Mar 2009 Posts: 60
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| Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 2:52 am Post subject: |
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Im about to go off into the never never land..apologies however..I do find this stuff interesting..
So I was thinking...
If you could feed the LCD Panels a Digital signal with the native resolution ONLY...(1024x768) then perhaps a Digital interface (DVI HDMI) is all that would be needed to make this work ?
Am I going crazy probably !
Im assuming the A/D conversion happens inside the projector on an A/D board..so an interface would have to be wired to the Digital In of the A/D conversion Out.
Using a spare Analog board for siwtching/power disable the analog circuit output and instead add a DVI or HDM Interface on it
then hardwire to the Projectors Digital Input.
Is it that simple...probably not right !
I guess that even the DVI or HDMI signal would need to be converted somewhat (different signalling protocols ??) to match the Digital Input that the projector understands.
I guess it could be done...however if it were that easy someone would have already done it...perhaps the guys that made the moome could do it.
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boingo
Joined: 01 Mar 2009 Posts: 60
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| Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 3:02 am Post subject: |
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Im on a roll...
I wonder if an interface DVI/HDMI board/card could be used from another sony projector (Sony VPL-FX50?) or even the moome...to marry with the Sony LCD Projector Digital Input.
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virusc
Joined: 11 Apr 2007 Posts: 358 Location: Massachusetts
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| Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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I thought that most of the older LCD units were actually partially analog driven panels with no direct digital path possible?
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boingo
Joined: 01 Mar 2009 Posts: 60
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| Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 7:35 am Post subject: |
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I think the LCD Panels are still digitally driven..
however the Projector Accepts Analogue inputs only (directly) ..that Im sure of thanks to all and specially Craigr
So any attempt to make a digital input work would be a hack attempt on the projector circuit boards...and that although I believe it could be done with knowledge is for me only a concept....(Of course I would love to make it work !)
I can see the LCD Panel driver chips in the service manual circuit diagrams and the LCD Panel connections..but apart from that...one would need to know about LCD Controllers/Drivers and how they can be interfaced and fed with DVI recieved signal.
That I just dont know..thats not the only problem...you must fool the projector to thinking it has a legitimate analogue signal to function (and get rid of the INPUT notification that stays on the screen if no signal is detected.)
So I think it could be done..but no one has done it..no one will ever likely do it..and its a little bit beyond my understanding...but that does not stop me thinking lol.
| virusc wrote: | | I thought that most of the older LCD units were actually partially analog driven panels with no direct digital path possible? |
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boingo
Joined: 01 Mar 2009 Posts: 60
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| Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 7:37 am Post subject: |
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Craigr
Thanks again for your help ! Got your email.
Can I ask what VP is good ...for a reasonable price Im thinking this would be a good addition to my equipment in any case.
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008 Posts: 4269 Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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| Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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I would look at the Lumagen Vision processors for your projector. The VisionHDP is a good choice at between $250 and $500 used. The VisionHDQ is a little better in terms of features and runs between $300 to $800 used.
craigr
_________________ JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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