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schmoe
Joined: 30 Mar 2008
Posts: 374
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 5:04 am Post subject: |
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| Gino wrote: | | Do what I did with mine, install some LUGs, Sony frankenyokes, HFQ900 lenses and 6-pole magnets and you'll get some great focus. |
Just outta curiosity... how much did all those upgrades cost ya?
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benareeno
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 1614
Location: ottawa, canada
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| Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 7:58 am Post subject: |
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an 8500LC is probably nicer than an AC (although others would tell you it's not really any different...Gary?) But there's no way it's sharper...no way.
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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| benareeno wrote: | | an 8500LC is probably nicer than an AC (although others would tell you it's not really any different...Gary?) But there's no way it's sharper...no way. |
How about the lenses?
An 8500LC has the same stock lenses that come on a 9500LC.
The HD-8 lenses is why the 8500AC is not known for being as sharp as some to the other PJ's. And by putting HD-10's on an 8500LC, it would have the same sharpness as an 9500LC.
So yes, an 8500LC should be much sharper than an 8500AC.
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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| RVonse wrote: | | mp20748 wrote: | Streaking alone removes any projector from being High Performance. And bandwidth should be the first requirement for such qualifications.
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But bandwidth is only a component of brightness and sharpness. I hear what you are saying Mike about bandwidth being extremely important, but then again the G90 generally sells higher than a Marquee and I personally think it is because of overall brightness and sharpness.
Furthermore, a tech like youself can always improve bandwidth later. But you are pretty well stuck with brightness and sharpness with the brand of the projector and size of the tubes. |
I agree here. Most of what people are looking for is brightness and sharpness. But when dealing with HD signals and material, this newer video standard (HD) has more going on with it than just brightness and sharpness, which has been the main ruler we've used for image quality, and what we're so used to. And that's why it's call "HIGH DEFINITION"
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
High-definition television (HDTV) is a digital television broadcasting system with higher resolution than traditional television systems (standard-definition TV, or SDTV). HDTV is digitally broadcast; the earliest implementations used analog broadcasting, but today digital television (DTV) signals are used, requiring less bandwidth due to digital video compression.
Projection screen in a home theater, displaying a high-definition television image.
HDTV can be in 720p or 1080p.
The reason I keep bringing up "Bandwidth" is that's what's needed to fully bring out the "RESOLUTION" that's the key component of todays High Definition signals.
Yesterdays sharpness (SD) is all the things in the foreground being clearly resolved and sharp. Todays sharpness (HD) is all the things in the backgrounds being clearly resolved, and when that happens, the foreground is also sharp.
We no longer just want sharpness, we should be going after being able to resolve all the info that's there in an HD signal. And in order to do that it requires BANDWIDTH.
So the G90 is very sharp. I know first hand I have one here in my sharp. It does exceptionally well with foreground sharpness. It's not the best with background sharpness, and we know why it lacks in that area. However, because of the exceptional sharpness of a G90, I'm curious to see what it looks like when it can also be made to do well with a higher resolving capability.
keep your eyes on the G90 thread on my forum. In a little while, we're going take that thread to a whole-nother level..
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Bruce 09
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 747
Location: Kamloops BC, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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| benareeno wrote: | | an 8500LC is probably nicer than an AC (although others would tell you it's not really any different...Gary?) But there's no way it's sharper...no way. |
you are showing your lack of knowledge about marquees and crt's in general with a statements like that .
Bruce
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Angus_rg
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 339
Location: A planet far, far away..... Baltimore, MD
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| Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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| benareeno wrote: | | an 8500LC is probably nicer than an AC (although others would tell you it's not really any different...Gary?) But there's no way it's sharper...no way. |
There's no probably about it, however if I had no means of gamma correction, I'd take the AC. With gamma correction, it is 100% better than an AC with HD8s. I'm curious about comparing it to HD145s/144s that are color corrected.
My point it, my AC black levels demolish anything you can get at a commercial store, short of a Kuro(which I bet still noticably tops it), so if you never see an LC, you'll won't think your missing anything.
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Angus_rg
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 339
Location: A planet far, far away..... Baltimore, MD
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| Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Bruce 09 wrote: | | benareeno wrote: | | an 8500LC is probably nicer than an AC (although others would tell you it's not really any different...Gary?) But there's no way it's sharper...no way. |
you are showing your lack of knowledge about marquees and crt's in general with a statements like that .
Bruce |
As a generalization, it's probably fair since it comes with HD10Ls. Mine was a tad sharper, but I have a feeling the later VNBs had more to do with it. When I put GT17s on it, it smoked the AC on the red and blue, but made the green get worse, but that was a tube setup issue that the 10ls hid.
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Bruce 09
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 747
Location: Kamloops BC, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | As a generalization, it's probably fair since it comes with HD10Ls |
10Ls are one of the sharpest focusing lenses out there, they only have a limited application, VERY small screens.
I have seen so many differences even between same models it is not funny, Curt mentioned this earlier about Xg`s
I have noticed this on Xgs as well . I have owned and seen 9500`s that looked as bad as a 8000
Simple Age of electronics is a HUGE FACTOR , over Heating in the ten or fifteen years before you own a projector , Misuse , Long standby hours , People making problematic parts machines into working machines for resale , f*ck*** up settings from three previous owners, Individuals not knowing what they are doing making expert comments with their limited experience with an old broken down projector .
Sadly that Is what a lot of info posted here is based on 
Bruce
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perisoft
Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 2920
Location: Ithaca, NY
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| Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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| mp20748 wrote: | | It does exceptionally well with foreground sharpness. It's not the best with background sharpness... |
That must be a remarkable projector to know what part of a two-dimensional field of pixels is part of the background and what part is the foreground. 
I wonder how the projectors know whether test patterns are foreground or background... maybe if we put someone's face in front of a test pattern, it won't resolve as well on a G90!
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Angus_rg
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 339
Location: A planet far, far away..... Baltimore, MD
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| Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Bruce 09 wrote: |
10Ls are one of the sharpest focusing lenses out there, they only have a limited application, VERY small screens.
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I wouldn't doubt it, just how many actually use a CRT PJ for a 60" screen. That's like getting a Mustang with a 4 banger, Though, building a 60" CRT into my living room wall has been something I've been thinking about by gutting a dead CRT. 10Ls be real good for that.
| Bruce 09 wrote: |
Simple Age of electronics is a HUGE FACTOR , over Heating in the ten or fifteen years before you own a projector , Misuse , Long standby hours , People making problematic parts machines into working machines for resale , f*ck*** up settings from three previous owners, Individuals not knowing what they are doing making expert comments with their limited experience with an old broken down projector .
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Don't forget about mods gone wrong.  I'm sure a number of them crop up.
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benareeno
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 1614
Location: ottawa, canada
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| Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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I feel so bad...I guess I don't know what I'm talking about. Even having owned all of the projectors mentioned...8500, 8500LC, 9500LC...I guess my opinion is worthless.
Most of you get all giddy by a 2% sharpness gain...it's gotta be more than that to register with me. You're all the same type of people who buy expensive cables because they're so much better...they're money wasters. Just as MP mods are money wasters. There may be a few % increase in performance which is visible on test patterns, but when watching movies, they're a waste of money. This is all my opinion though...definitely not the gospel, just my 2 cents.
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emdawgz1
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 7949
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| Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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| benareeno wrote: | I feel so bad...I guess I don't know what I'm talking about. Even having owned all of the projectors mentioned...8500, 8500LC, 9500LC...I guess my opinion is worthless.
Most of you get all giddy by a 2% sharpness gain...it's gotta be more than that to register with me. You're all the same type of people who buy expensive cables because they're so much better...they're money wasters. Just as MP mods are money wasters. There may be a few % increase in performance which is visible on test patterns, but when watching movies, they're a waste of money. This is all my opinion though...definitely not the gospel, just my 2 cents. |
Ben, your opinion is as valid as anyones elses. If you dont think they are valuable, i guess you'll vote with your wallet. However, i have seen the modded Marquee @ William's house.... It looks really good to me. So much so that i'm hoping he'll mod my XG's.
Im voting w/ my wallet as well.
VIVE LE DIFFERNCE!!!!
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benareeno
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 1614
Location: ottawa, canada
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| Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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That is almost Obama-like...your political savvy! 
I agree though...if you want to pay for his XG mods, then that's great. If you see a difference that is worth the price.
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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| perisoft wrote: | | That must be a remarkable projector to know what part of a two-dimensional field of pixels is part of the background and what part is the foreground. |
When it's able to fully resolve the resolution, without a doubt, it is!
| Quote: | | I wonder how the projectors know whether test patterns are foreground or background... maybe if we put someone's face in front of a test pattern, it won't resolve as well on a G90! |
Easy, but you'll have to first understand what's all involved in making that happen, and for now I'm just not up to explaining it. I just prefer to be about the business of making it happen..
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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The details in the back ground that Mike is talking about is more to do with the ability of the set to resolve the intricate shades of colors, you can have a set be as sharp as a razors edge but if it can not capture the various shades of a scenes colors it will look one dimensional. Bandwidth has much to do with this as it carries the subtle differences in color shades. Bandwidth is not all about sharpness and resolution, it also has to do with the ability of the display to show the various shades of a color. This is what gives a picture that three dimensional feel. Most of our sets can handle fairly high bandwidths but you need them to do better, lowering the noise floor of any CRT or Audio Equipment will allow that piece of equipment to resolve all the detail(not sharpness detail is different) hidden within the noise, and that is what Mike was talking about with the background in G90 images. Its the exact same principle with audio you can apply to video, but with video its much less a subjective improvement over audio.
Athanasios
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benareeno
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 1614
Location: ottawa, canada
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| Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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Sounds like a lot of BS to me...
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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benareeno
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 1614
Location: ottawa, canada
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| Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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or S&M ... Smoke and Mirrors.
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Angus_rg
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 339
Location: A planet far, far away..... Baltimore, MD
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| Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | The details in the back ground that Mike is talking about is more to do with the ability of the set to resolve the intricate shades of colors, you can have a set be as sharp as a razors edge but if it can not capture the various shades of a scenes colors it will look one dimensional. Bandwidth has much to do with this as it carries the subtle differences in color shades. Bandwidth is not all about sharpness and resolution, it also has to do with the ability of the display to show the various shades of a color. This is what gives a picture that three dimensional feel. Most of our sets can handle fairly high bandwidths but you need them to do better, lowering the noise floor of any CRT or Audio Equipment will allow that piece of equipment to resolve all the detail(not sharpness detail is different) hidden within the noise, and that is what Mike was talking about with the background in G90 images. Its the exact same principle with audio you can apply to video, but with video its much less a subjective improvement over audio.
Athanasios |
Precisely why a sortable list; which is sharper, which has best color, which has best contrast, etc., is the only way you could make most happy, and even then It won't change opinions, just give out a few chubbies to those with bruised egos.
Opinions are like farts; the only chance you'll appreciate them is if it's yours. Sure, there could be facts supporting them, like those beans you had made them real potent. Doesn't mean I'll want it canned in an air freshner.
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benareeno
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 1614
Location: ottawa, canada
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| Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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the list is pointless...people will defend their own projectors to their death. Minor differences between each category in pic quality...but the availability of parts/reliability and quietness of the projector are where one should choose.
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