CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

[Mr. Green]

Hello,

As opposed to hijacking another thread, I'll start a new one.

I have my 9PG+ and have been very happy with it, but like most people in this hobby there's the upgrade bug and I'm always thinking about eventually getting into one of the top 9 inch sets.

I happened across the thread about a discontinued chip for G90's that is really important and would like to know more. Is this something that could easily happen to the other 9" sets or were there that many more 9" sets made of other brands that parts aren't an issue, or unlike the G90, do other machines not have a "one-off" chip (or other part) that isn't used in another machine making parts scarce?

A large portion of people call the G90 the pinnacle of CRT, but I would like to know if it's true or just really proud owners (as they should be). Everyone bashes Marquees because the are "ugly" to look at and bash AmPro's for fun, even though a 4600 should be able to hold its own against a G90. It's very confusing.

Having gone through all that... Just how much better is the G90 compared to a 9500 Ultra or a 1209/ Cine9, or even an AmPro 4600? Is it really that much better?

Is it simply because they are hard to find, making it a coveted machine? Is it mostly bragging rights having the rare big daddy machine?

If you set up a G90, Marquee 9500LC ultra, Barco 1209s, Cine9, Ampro 4600 (assuming all were in mint condition and set up by a pro and calibrated) would you really see a difference? Has anybody ever used more than one of these sets in the same place?

If it's the lenses that make the difference, could a mod be made so you could hook them up to a Marquee like the NEC lenses?

If my budget would allow it, I'd personally like to get a 9" LC machine (probably a 9500 ultra), but I've never been able to tell by reading all the documentation and posts just how close the best 9" machines are. On paper they all look very similar. One would also assume since Marquee 9500's and Barco 909's are/ were in production more recently that the G90, they would have made some technological steps up over the last 4 years, leaving the G90 with 2004 tech, yes/no?

I love reading about Cliff's G90 stack and seeing the pictures, but I wonder, if you swapped the G90's out with a stack of any of the other top 9" CRT's, would his setup be any less impressive?

I'd really appreciate anybody's input.

Cheers,
Chris

[Zebu Fellenz]

I think most of the newer 9" machines will all be close in preformance. The 4600 may have a disadvantage in corner focus due to the lens mounting but other than that they should all be close with the same C-elements and lenses. I am no expert on this having never used a 9" machine but I can't imagine that there would be a real visible difference when they are all using about equivilant lenses and tubes.

As an aside if i ever upgrade I'd look at two MP modded 8500LC Ultra's in a blend.

[Mr. Green]

I'm hoping to do a single 9" unit versus, stacking 1080p capable 8"s, but it crossed my mind.

[Tim in Phoenix]

[Gary M.]

if they all had the relevant correct filtered c-elements and LUGs with at minimum GT17 lenses then things should be pretty close, but don't throw the 909/Cine 9 in there, that beast is at another level over any other 9", super bandwidth and ultimate tube focusing control

also consider that 2 makes, the Barco and Marquee, can be heavily modified by various folks like Greg, Mike and Tim

if you want really close to 9" performance as Cliff has said, but don't want to spring for the whole deal, get a NEC 1352LC

-Gary

[Nashou66]

Yepp What Tim said !

Athanasios

[emdawgz1]

I've never seen the marquee or the ampro.

The sony is remarkable. I dont wanna dispute with Tim but i dont recall the color issue w/ the 90 stack we used to run @ the shop. One of my first jaw drop moments with a big screen was watching "the Masters" in hd w/ a 90 stack. It was so good you could smell the grass....almost.


The barco (runco dtv1200) was almost as good. Its really close.

just an opinion.

[jkruger]

I have seen a very nice G90 setup and I think the Runcos look just as good as the G90 because they have colored c-elements. The Barco 1209s does not come stock with them and does not have colors that look as good.

[zGman]

Well, I have seen all but the ampro, and worked quite a bit with (and owned) Barco/Runco 1101 (1209)
and 1200 (909) and 2002/3 Marquee Ultra...They all have some issues stock - and specs do not not tell
the whole story. But, to answer your question - the only way you could tell them apart if setup professionally
would be to run a few test patterns such as vertical line and streaking and know what to look for. On normal
material I think it would be difficult to just walk in and say 'Oh, that's a ........' , without a lot of experience.

The much vaunted bandwidth figures for the 909 are not realized in real life testing, although it is
better than the 1209S series (which had the same video chain as a BG808S) - That being said,
the picture quality is great. All the extra focus and astig and conv. zones do not add a lot or get
around the need for perfect mechanical set-up including cpc magnetics. Parts and support will
be interesting in the next few years, as the all digital chassis has a high level of complexity.

Later model Barco 1209S series have a nice picture and are easy to set-up, but have some limitations
in bandwidth and as mentioned earller, don't come stock with color filtered c-elements. Parts and
servce availability are very good though, and prices are reasonable - certainly worth considering.

G90 is definitely the best looking chassis, but also big, heavy & noisy, with issues of its own, including
a tendency to streak. But a great picture with lots of "pop", nice set-up features, and great lenses.
Lack of support is the worst issue here. I don't know if anyone has correlated the failures to any
particular issue, but using a very good UPS and providing very good cooling would be great ideas
to implement for current G90 owners/operators.

The late model Marquee Ultra with no mods except for high res LUG tubes and 1292 focus coils is
certainly a match with the G90 or 909, given that equivilent lenses are used. Tim's point about service
and parts availability is very true and certainly was a factor in deciding to stay with the Marquee.

But that's just me - it is a hotly contested point I am sure, just like Porsche vs Ferrari.....

At this point, anyone who is sticking with CRT is OK by me, take your pick and light up
those tubes, and enjoy the wonderful lack of motion artifacts and the film-like image....

G

[Spanky Ham]

I remember asking Scott about this once and his reply was that there would be only minor differences between pjs that have the same tube/lens combo. This is probably more like Indycar racing than F1. In Indy, everyone is using the same engine and chassis(at least the winners:)). Lap times are close because of this. If it was like F1, then the each pj would have their own special tube. Each F1 team using their own chassis and for the most part engine gives a big discrepency in lap times.

Honestly, the part situation makes the Marquee the only safe choice. With the G90 chip problem, I think someone would have to be adventurous to say the least to buy a G90. If I was a G90 owner with good tubes and wanted to stick with CRT, then I might get a trashed tube Marquee for back up. The Ampros and Barcos probably aren't to bad. Scott could answer the question of if there are any unavailable parts for the Ampro. There should be enough used parts floating around for the next couple of years to take care of the Barcos. For Marquees, Scott has mentioned that VDC will be supplying parts into the middle of the next decade. That should be sufficient for the last five CRT users still around.

[Mr. Green]

The late model Marquee Ultra with no mods except for high res LUG tubes and 1292 focus coils

[Spanky Ham]

If you really want the best image and only watch movies, then a blend is the best. An 8" blend for 2.35 will beat a 9" single every time.

[Clarence]

[Mr. Green]

[Spanky Ham]

Well, you got me Clarence. I haven't seen an 8" blend yet. Just going on specs and what it should do, an 8" blend should be better than a 9". It has been a while since I have seen a blend anyway. I was assuming that the TVone and Blendzilla were much better than what I have seen in the past. Of course, you have seen the Blendzilla up close, so maybe it isn't all that.

[Mr. Green]

Ok,

So, what is better? A single 9" lc unit or 2 x 8" lc units. In a 2.35:1 aspect ratio, you really aren't using a lot of tube face, which seems like a bit of a waste on a 9" tube. You also could have the projector a lot closer with a blend... what didn't you like about a blend Clarence?

I'm sure a 9" blend would be unreal though.

[km987654]

IMHO Its unlikely that you will get an consensus here because these machines are all top of their game so what your seeing are personal preferences surfacing.

[Mr. Green]

I know, it's always hard to get a unbiased opinion here.

I'm trying to get people to put ego's aside and just say, "you know I love my G90, but I've seen a 9500lc and it looks just as good" or something to that effect. I'm pretty satisfied with the replies I've received. it sounds like a very small difference in performance, especially if you get any projector that has already got a few upgrades on it.

Now I'm toying with this 2 x 8" sets in a blend or a single 9" lc unit. I want to know what the downside to a blend would be. I can already imagine the pro's, just waiting for the cons...

[rabies_70]

[quote="Tim in Phoenix"]

[Clarence]