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Tom.W
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 6635
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| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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Great work John ! The question is do you have any idea what is causing the chips to fail ?
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JohnHWman
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 215
Location: France - Grenoble
TV/Projector: Sony VPH-G90U (one unit for me, four others units repaired and sold)
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| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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If this chip is a fuse type 'CPLD' (logic array programmed with ROM), then I would suspect that the ROM program gets partially erased while aging or Chip wafer manufacturing quality problems (migration in silicon)...
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Tom.W
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 6635
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| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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Great........ 
Now I'm really pissed off with Sony and I don't even own a G90.
No more business with Sony from me !
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1031
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 657
Location: Finland
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emdawgz1
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 7949
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| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Tom.W wrote: | Great........
Now I'm really pissed off with Sony and I don't even own a G90.
No more business with Sony from me !
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a 20yr old peice of electronics has A chip on A board fail and the manufacturer is negilgent???
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Zebu Fellenz
Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 2567
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| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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| emdawgz1 wrote: |
a 20yr old peice of electronics has A chip on A board fail and the manufacturer is negilgent??? |
Many G90's are less than ten years old. They only began making them in 1997.
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JohnHWman
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 215
Location: France - Grenoble
TV/Projector: Sony VPH-G90U (one unit for me, four others units repaired and sold)
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| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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| 1031 wrote: | | John, does that ic run hot? Have you thought to put small heatsink for it. I think those low profile "bga case" style heatsinks with thermal conductive adhesive could work there.. |
Not at all, this chip is a TQFP48 package type (11x11mm size see picture some pages back) and is really cold (clock speed is not high and its internal logic functions are quite simple).
John
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Tom.W
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
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1031
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 657
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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| JohnHWman wrote: | | 1031 wrote: | | John, does that ic run hot? Have you thought to put small heatsink for it. I think those low profile "bga case" style heatsinks with thermal conductive adhesive could work there.. |
Not at all, this chip is a TQFP48 package type (11x11mm size see picture some pages back) and is really cold (clock speed is not high and its internal logic functions are quite simple).
John |
One possibility is that it gets little voltage spikes somewhere and those broke that over the time, i remember that there was talk about "dataline protection zeners" long time ago and i got impression that there is not protection zeners near that ic. Maybe it is worht to investige that if there are lines that can carry spikes to that ic and protect those lines with proper diodes (6,8v TAZīs perhaps)
Or that ic is just bad quality one 
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Tom.W
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 6635
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| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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| JohnHWman wrote: | | 1031 wrote: | | John, does that ic run hot? Have you thought to put small heatsink for it. I think those low profile "bga case" style heatsinks with thermal conductive adhesive could work there.. |
Not at all, this chip is a TQFP48 package type (11x11mm size see picture some pages back) and is really cold (clock speed is not high and its internal logic functions are quite simple).
John |
Apparently Sony is either incompetent or unwilling to offer replacement chips ...
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oliverg
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 800
Location: Melbourne, Australia
TV/Projector: Sony G90 X2 - Vidikron Vision 1
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| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:35 pm Post subject: amazing work |
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Well done John,
Is there anything you can't fix? 
Kind regards
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24396
Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Zebu Fellenz wrote: | | emdawgz1 wrote: |
a 20yr old peice of electronics has A chip on A board fail and the manufacturer is negilgent??? |
Many G90's are less than ten years old. They only began making them in 1997. |
Agreed. From the sets I've seen here, they are all post 1998, and late 1998. 3 months on a boat, and I'll bet very few were sold before 1999.
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JohnHWman
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 215
Location: France - Grenoble
TV/Projector: Sony VPH-G90U (one unit for me, four others units repaired and sold)
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| Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:14 am Post subject: Re: amazing work |
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| oliverg wrote: | Well done John,
Is there anything you can't fix?
Kind regards |
Yes, Oliver. I'm still stuck with one of Terry's YA boards failure (lack of serial communication link with PC for firmware download)  Please advise what I should do with your repaired YA board  John
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emdawgz1
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 7949
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| Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Curt Palme wrote: | | Zebu Fellenz wrote: | | emdawgz1 wrote: |
a 20yr old peice of electronics has A chip on A board fail and the manufacturer is negilgent??? |
Many G90's are less than ten years old. They only began making them in 1997. |
Agreed. From the sets I've seen here, they are all post 1998, and late 1998. 3 months on a boat, and I'll bet very few were sold before 1999. |
Ok A 10 yr old piece of kit. I'm just saying that its not that big an indictment to have a single chip on a board fail after 10 yrs.
Mebbe im wrong..... 
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HaydnG90
Joined: 22 May 2006
Posts: 1356
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| Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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I think the point is that Sony must have known early on that this particular 'proprietory' IC chip was failing prematurely, used up their normal stock of backup parts and made no attempt to organize an additional production run to cover future failures. They knew the supply of parts was an issue well before 1996, hence the Tech note to transfer specific IC's from old boards to new ones.
Just for the record the YA board on my sept 2000 build mid run G90 with 1500 hrs failed at 6-7 year mark.
Last edited by HaydnG90 on Wed Apr 01, 2009 2:26 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24396
Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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| Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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I disagree. I've got stuff here from the 70s with literally first generation chips in them that work fine. I emailed someone yesterday, I installed some Ivie (www.ivie.com) equipment back in 2000 in a hotel ballroom, the same one I'm reworking now. Three years in, two of the Ivie input channels developed random noise, which I thought was strange. I called Ivie, who unlike TOA, said they knew exactly what the problem was, there was a few 100 of 784+ units that had bad opamp chips in them, and about 3 years after install, they would go noisy. It was specifically a chip substrate problem, they repaired all units at no charge, and I haven't had any problems since.
I'm wondering if the G90 has a similar chip issue with some units?
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JohnHWman
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 215
Location: France - Grenoble
TV/Projector: Sony VPH-G90U (one unit for me, four others units repaired and sold)
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| Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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| HaydnG90 wrote: | | I think the point is that Sony must have known early on that this particular 'proprietory' IC chip was failing prematurely, used up their normal stock of backup parts and made no attempt to organize an additional production run to cover future failures. |
I fully agree with this fact. Most Sony Repair centers must had forwarded failure rate and chips involved in their reparation work over the years. Think that this machine was very costly in the 2000' and service must have been 100% perfect for these ~1K worldwide customers Now, we should expect a better answers / understanding (at least, a decent datasheet of the chip) from Sony than silence
John
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24396
Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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| Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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I just think Sony doesn't give a sh*t. Heck, maybe they can apply to the US gov't for 'warranty backup' as the car manufacturers are doing.
But seriously, think about it.
1) Old technology
2) Limited amounts of sets made in the first place
3) Most units are out of service 'where it counts', ie broadcast studios and film post production
4) To quote Kanye West: ' Sony doesn't care about consumers'
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Curt Palme wrote: | I just think Sony doesn't give a sh*t. Heck, maybe they can apply to the US gov't for 'warranty backup' as the car manufacturers are doing.
But seriously, think about it.
1) Old technology
2) Limited amounts of sets made in the first place
3) Most units are out of service 'where it counts', ie broadcast studios and film post production
4) To quote Kanye West: ' Sony doesn't care about consumers' |
I'll agree with that. The G90 along with all Sony's CRT projectors fall under Sony business and professional section, not consumer. That was their target area and they dont care otherwise.
You G90 owners better start acquiring YA boards if you want to keep your unit running for some more years. Just hope they dont end up costing more then a whole projector without one.
Face it guys, the G90 is destined for the recycling centers............
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Fredrik
Joined: 03 Jul 2007
Posts: 49
Location: Stockholm
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| Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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Pretty sad reading and I'm not even an owner of a G90.
If they are not going to fix it themselves why not at least give whatever support they can in terms of information/data about the chip.
Piss me off when "someone" can but "won't".
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