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Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 4899
Location: Flower Mound, TX
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| Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 9:40 pm Post subject: Been to a 4K Digital Cinema? |
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Wondering if anyone here besides me has seen a movie in a 4K DCi commercial theater yet?
As an FYI, if it was a DLP cinema, then if it was an early Dci PJ it was 1280x1024 and if a more recent DCi PJ, then it was 2K (2048x1080). Pretty much the only 4K theaters our there are the Sonys.
BTW, here is a list of theaters with Sony 4K projectors:
Circuit Name Theatre Name Theatre Address
AMC AMC Otay 12 2015 Birch Rd., Building 750, Chula Vista, CA 91915
AMC AMC Glendora 12 1337 East Gladstone Street, Glendora, CA 91740
AMC AMC Plaza Bonita 14 3050 Plaza Bonita Rd., National City, CA 91950
AMC AMC Tyler 16 3375 Tyler Ave., Riverside, CA 92503
AMC AMC Orchards 12 14653 Orchards Pkwy., Westminster, CO 80023
AMC AMC Avenue Forsyth 12 410 Peachtree Pkwy., Cumming, GA 30040
AMC AMC Castleton Square 14 6020 East 82nd St., Indianapolis, IN 46250
AMC AMC Highland Village 12 4090 Barton Creek, Highlands Village, TX 75077
AMC Southcenter 16 633 Southcenter, Seattle, WA 98188
Cinema Seattle 321 Mercer St., Seattle, WA 98109
Cinemark Cinemark Tinseltown Plano 3800 Dallas Pkwy., Plano, TX 75093
Landmark Harbor East 645 President St., Baltimore, MD 21202
Landmark The Landmark 10850 Pico Blvd., Ste. 520, Los Angeles, CA 90064
Landmark The Landmark 5415 Landmark Pl., Greenwood Village, CO 80111
Landmark Sunshine Cinema 143 E. Houston St., New York, NY 10002
Landmark Ritz East 125 S. Second St., Philadelphia, PA 19106
Marcus Majestic Brookfield Theatre 770 North Springdale, Waukesha, WI 53186
Muvico Muvico Rosemont 18 9701 Bryn Mawr Ave., Rosemount, IL 60018
Worldwide 4K Installations
Country Circuit Name Theatre Name Theatre Address
Australia Greater Union Greater Union - 3 Screens George Street, Sydney, NSW 2000
Austria Cineplexx Wienerbergstrasse 11, 1100 Wien, Austria
Bulgaria Cinemax CINEMAX, Georgi Izmirliev Square 9, Blagoevgrad 2700, Bulgaria
Canada AMC AMC Yonge Dundas 24 10 Dundas Street East, Toronto, Ontario M5B 2G9
China CFG Beijing New Century Cinema BB65, #1 Oriental Plaza Changan Street, BJ
France Ciné 89 Ciné 89, Place Charles Ottina, Saint Priest, Lyon
Holland MustSee Vesteplein 5, 2611 WG Delft, Holland
Israel Golan Globus Azrieli Centre, Tel Aviv, Israel
Japan Shochiku 2-5-1 Yurakucho, Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo, 100-0006 Japan
Japan SKIP City Corporation SKIP City Corporation 3-12-63 Kamiaoki, Kawaguchi-shi, Saitama, 333-0844 Japan
Norway Bergen Kino Bergen Kino, Neumannsgt. 3 3, 5015 Bergen, Norway
Norway NFI Filmens Hus, Dronningens gate 16, Oslo, Norway
Norway Telenor Telenor HQ, Snaroy Veyen 31, Oslo, Norway
Norway Trondheim Kino Nova Kino, Cicignons Plass N-7011, Trondheim, Norway
Poland SilverScreen ul. Puławska 17, 02-515 Warszawa, Poland
Singapore Cathay Singapore Cathay Cineleisure 8 Grange Road, Cathay Cineleisure Orchard, Singapore
Singapore Cathay Singapore The Cathay 2 Handy Road, Singapore 236695
United Kingdom Odeon Bedford Road, Guildford, Surrey, GU1 4SJ, United Kingdom
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Dave
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station....
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Gino
Joined: 22 Apr 2006
Posts: 1363
Location: Trinity Beach, AUSTRALIA
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| Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 2:19 am Post subject: |
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Cool, didn't know Australia had one yet, will have to check it out.
So what was your verdict Dave?
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10270
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| Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:23 am Post subject: |
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I haven't been to a public theater in 2-3 years now. Its hard to enjoy the movie when the ambient life forms are trying to distract you and the law doesn't let you apply the preferred $0.39 solution. I am curious, though, if these theaters are just using 4K imagers, or if they are sourcing material at 4K.
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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emdawgz1
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 7949
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| Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 5:20 pm Post subject: Re: Been to a 4K Digital Cinema? |
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| Person99 wrote: | Wondering if anyone here besides me has seen a movie in a 4K DCi commercial theater yet?
As an FYI, if it was a DLP cinema, then if it was an early Dci PJ it was 1280x1024 and if a more recent DCi PJ, then it was 2K (2048x1080). Pretty much the only 4K theaters our there are the Sonys.
BTW, here is a list of theaters with Sony 4K projectors:
Circuit Name Theatre Name Theatre Address
AMC AMC Otay 12 2015 Birch Rd., Building 750, Chula Vista, CA 91915
AMC AMC Glendora 12 1337 East Gladstone Street, Glendora, CA 91740
AMC AMC Plaza Bonita 14 3050 Plaza Bonita Rd., National City, CA 91950
AMC AMC Tyler 16 3375 Tyler Ave., Riverside, CA 92503
AMC AMC Orchards 12 14653 Orchards Pkwy., Westminster, CO 80023
AMC AMC Avenue Forsyth 12 410 Peachtree Pkwy., Cumming, GA 30040
AMC AMC Castleton Square 14 6020 East 82nd St., Indianapolis, IN 46250
AMC AMC Highland Village 12 4090 Barton Creek, Highlands Village, TX 75077
AMC Southcenter 16 633 Southcenter, Seattle, WA 98188
Cinema Seattle 321 Mercer St., Seattle, WA 98109
Cinemark Cinemark Tinseltown Plano 3800 Dallas Pkwy., Plano, TX 75093
Landmark Harbor East 645 President St., Baltimore, MD 21202
Landmark The Landmark 10850 Pico Blvd., Ste. 520, Los Angeles, CA 90064
Landmark The Landmark 5415 Landmark Pl., Greenwood Village, CO 80111
Landmark Sunshine Cinema 143 E. Houston St., New York, NY 10002
Landmark Ritz East 125 S. Second St., Philadelphia, PA 19106
Marcus Majestic Brookfield Theatre 770 North Springdale, Waukesha, WI 53186
Muvico Muvico Rosemont 18 9701 Bryn Mawr Ave., Rosemount, IL 60018
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The Ritz theaters used to be one of my favorite spots. It was a locally owned art film house that expanded. The owner really loved films and filmmakers. It was the first movie house to show Spike Lee's first film "Joe's Bed Stuy Barbershop. We cut Heads". They had 3 locations in Center City and the Midnight show on Fri and Sat was always Blue Velvet at the Roxy Screening room, and Rocky Horror at the TLA. You havent lived til you've seen a Full performance of Rocky horror, and a Blue Velvet midnight Show.
I'll see whats playing @ the ritz and report back.
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Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 4899
Location: Flower Mound, TX
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| Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 7:47 pm Post subject: Re: Been to a 4K Digital Cinema? |
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| kal wrote: | | Person99 wrote: | | Wondering if anyone here besides me has seen a movie in a 4K DCi commercial theater yet? |
So what did you think Dave? What movies?
Kal |
As for my opinion.
I've seen at my 4K theater:
I Am Legend
The Dark Knight
Horton Hears a Who
Speed Racer
Max Payne
Madagascar 2
Beverly Hills Chihuahua
Nim's Island
Kung Fu Panda
WALL-E
Journey to the Center of the Earth
Star Wars: The Clone Wars
The theater I go to has both CIW and CIH screening rooms. Most of the scope movies I've seen in the CIH theaters--except of course TDK which due to the changing ARs was shown in a CIW theater.
That is 12 movies in 2008. Prior to having this theater near me, I didn't see 12 total movies in a commercial theater in the whole 3 years before that (so you can probably see where this is going)!
All DCi PJs whether 4K or 2K can present either 4K or 2K content. Not all the movies in that list were released 4K, many of the studios only do 2K, so on much content, it is basically line doubled. Also, every presentation has not been perfect, the projector on TDK was off calibration and the Dark stuff was terrible compared to the properly calibrated projector in Max Payne.
The bottom line is this: The biggest weakness of the Sony 4K projectors is on/off CR. However, that is also the biggest weakness of film. So, as far as CR goes, they are about the same. Using either CRT of even recent digital tech, we can get CRs in our home that exceed what is achieved in a theater.
That aside though, it exceeds film in every other way. Although people talk about the theoretical resolution of film being higher than 4k, between film grain, repeated runs through the PJ, etc, the film does not look as good. I've never seen a 35mm presentation that was even close. 70mm/IMAX (on a flat screen) can compete, but it is closer than you think.
The digitally sourced material (Madagascar, WALL-E, etc) was incredible. Super clean, super clear. Being brighter than film projectors, the bright stuff looked great. Nim's Island looked fantastic.
I can't wait to see live action stuff captured on a 4K digital camera (e.g. Red One) and presented here.
One of my friends loves going to movies. Goes to movies at theaters all over the Dallas/Ft. Worth area. He finally went to see a movie here with me (Max Payne) and left saying, "you are right, that is the best looking presentation I've seen in a commercial theater."
I've seen a movie at a 2K DLP DCi theater and it did not impress me nearly as much. As an aside, the last movie I've seen projected on film was Bee Movie. I've sworn off film-based presentations and you can't drag me to one unless it is flat-screen IMAX!
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Dave
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station....
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Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 4899
Location: Flower Mound, TX
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| Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Gino wrote: | Cool, didn't know Australia had one yet, will have to check it out.
So what was your verdict Dave? |
Well, "far north" Queensland is a bit of a hike to Sydney. If you are going just for the film, I'd try to see more than 1 on that trip! 
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Dave
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station....
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Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 4899
Location: Flower Mound, TX
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| Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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Oh, one other thing on the film, we have a former projectionist (of many years) here in the area (lives about 12 miles from me). His theater use to be a Runco-badged XG in a CIH config which he swapped out several years ago for a Qualia in CIH (which he has not swapped that out yet). His theater also has 16mm and 35mm projection equipment in it. As he will tell you (and your eyes can attest), the Qualia at 1080p, actually looks as good as 35mm film.
Here is some of his thoughts on this (from a thread at AVS):
| Quote: |
As a professional projectionist, having projected literally thousands of 35mm and hundreds of 16mm prints in a number of different venues in roughly a dozen cities across the U.S.s over the last 50 years and having 35mm, 16mm, and a Sony Qualia 004 video projector in my HT, I feel I am pretty well qualified to judge the relative quality of video, 16mm, and 35mm.
At a viewing distance of 1.2X 2.40:1 screen widths in my HT, relative quality is pretty obvious.
Super 16 negative stock compares reasonably with HD, but when you include printing and generational losses in producing a release print, it's not going to be anywhere near HD quality.
BTW, I also spent 4 years working at the Ideal Pictures division of Royal Amusements in Honolulu which was the local 16mm Films Inc. distributor for the state of Hawaii.
I have multiple 35mm IB Tech prints in all 3 AR's in my collection and the IB prints look no more detailed than HD projected from the Sony.
Is the color palette different between an IB Tech print and video? Yes. But when viewed from 1.1 or 1.2 screen widths, even with a 35mm IB Tech print, grain size, which impacts detail, can be problematical depending on the print. |
Someone claimed he didn't know what he was talking about that the resolution of film was WAAAY higher. His response:
| Quote: | Again you are confusing the resolution of a first generation laser exposed negative, which has nothing to do with the resolution of 35mm film as projected in a theatre, which is generally in the vicinity of 2K.
Interestingly enough, roughly 50% of todays productions are using Digital Intermediates at (gasp!!!) 2K resolution in the production stream.
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Dave
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station....
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emdawgz1
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 7949
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| Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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I have only seen 2 Digitals (w/ my own 2 eyes) that i could live w/ and love. A Qualia and a vp200. Both set up with CIH.
Bulb life/cost would be my only concern
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Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 4899
Location: Flower Mound, TX
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| Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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| emdawgz1 wrote: | I have only seen 2 Digitals (w/ my own 2 eyes) that i could live w/ and love. A Qualia and a vp200. Both set up with CIH.
Bulb life/cost would be my only concern
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Yeah, the bulb in the Qualia looks much better than the bulb in most digitals. But that is one pricey bulb! But, if you have the money for a $25,000 PJ (which is was when he bought it), $1000 every 2-4 years is probably not that big of a thing to you!
The Sony 4K DCi projectors are a Qualia on steroids! 
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Dave
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station....
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Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 4899
Location: Flower Mound, TX
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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| Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 4:33 am Post subject: Re: Been to a 4K Digital Cinema? |
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| Person99 wrote: | I Am Legend
The Dark Knight
Horton Hears a Who
Speed Racer
Max Payne
Madagascar 2
Beverly Hills Chihuahua
Nim's Island
Kung Fu Panda
WALL-E
Journey to the Center of the Earth
Star Wars: The Clone Wars |
Wow! More movies than I've seen in a commerical theater in the last 10 years (almost)!
| Quote: | | The theater I go to has both CIW and CIH screening rooms. Most of the scope movies I've seen in the CIH theaters--except of course TDK which due to the changing ARs was shown in a CIW theater. |
Intersting. Never really dawned on me that CIW needs to be used now due to movies like Dark Knight. Makes sense.
| Quote: | | The bottom line is this: The biggest weakness of the Sony 4K projectors is on/off CR. However, that is also the biggest weakness of film. |
Yup. On/off CR of film absolutely blows.
| Quote: | | So, as far as CR goes, they are about the same. Using either CRT of even recent digital tech, we can get CRs in our home that exceed what is achieved in a theater. |
Very true. Always been the case. One of the (many) reasons I don't spend any time in commercial theaters other than a few select IMAX ones. If there were any 4K theaters around here I'd go more often.
| Quote: | | That aside though, it exceeds film in every other way. Although people talk about the theoretical resolution of film being higher than 4k, between film grain, repeated runs through the PJ, etc, the film does not look as good. I've never seen a 35mm presentation that was even close. 70mm/IMAX (on a flat screen) can compete, but it is closer than you think. |
The other MASSIVE advantage (at least to me) with digital is that the 100th showing of the film will look every bit as good as the first.
That being said, around here even the first run print of film based presentation often looks like crap. I swear the film stock they use for most film these days is so poor, you'd think they were printing on toilet paper. I've seen a few special presentation 16 and 35mm film prints at the national film board and archives and the colour/contrast/resolution just blows away what you see in 'regular' commercial theaters. Most commercial theaters are of course just doing whatever's cheapest as most people could not care less.
| Quote: | | I've sworn off film-based presentations and you can't drag me to one unless it is flat-screen IMAX! |
Unfortunately that's all I have around here. For me it's IMAX or nothing. I don't bother with 'regular' prints anymore. It's just too painful.
Thanks for sharing Dave!
Kal
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Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 4899
Location: Flower Mound, TX
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| Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 4:23 pm Post subject: Re: Been to a 4K Digital Cinema? |
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| kal wrote: | | Person99 wrote: | I Am Legend
The Dark Knight
Horton Hears a Who
Speed Racer
Max Payne
Madagascar 2
Beverly Hills Chihuahua
Nim's Island
Kung Fu Panda
WALL-E
Journey to the Center of the Earth
Star Wars: The Clone Wars |
Wow! More movies than I've seen in a commerical theater in the last 10 years (almost)! |
Yep. Because the theater is THAT good.
Saw Bolt yesterday. Looked phenomenal!
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Dave
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station....
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