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gcom007
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 112
Location: Beverly Hills, Michigan
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| Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 1:05 am Post subject: Re: Curt likes Ed but not DLR? |
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| stuffandpuff wrote: | | emdawgz1 wrote: | | stuffandpuff wrote: |
Jazz is full of self absorbed masturbators trying to convince themselves and their audience that they are making relevant music. EVH has more feeling in his playing than 90% of musicians. The Song/Riff always came first with VH. The other well known players from the 70s 80s could not write a memorial tune if their life depended on it. This applies to Jazz as well. 75 % of all music sucks, 20% is mediocre and the last 5% has some real talent.
I have to mention that I saw Pat Metheny in concert recently and he is the cream of the crop in Jazz guitar. I also saw Allen Holdsworth a couple years ago in a small setting, and being a huge fan of his music I was thoroughly disappointed in the live show. It was 120 minutes of pissing up a rope. No songs, just the most amazing players playing as fast as they can... I was bored to death after 15 minutes.
I will say the biggest applause came when they played a tune off of Metal Fatigue. It was the only tune they played all night that had any song structure and a melody you could follow. The reaction of the audience reinforces to me that people like good songs over amazing technical playing anyday. EVH is not and never has been a technical player. He just had fast hands. |
EVH is very good. But he's no Hendrix. He's not the greatest.
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I never said he was Hendrix or the greatest.  but I can't think of a more relevant rock guitarist since Hendrix. Clapton, Beck and the rest were basically blues players. I like them all. I just can't get over the fact that someone would suggest Eddie plays with no feeling.  |
But to be fair, rock is basically blues. I'd say Hendrix's lead style was even more blues-based than Clapton's and certainly Beck's. When Clapton plays blues, he plays it straight. He'll have blues touches in everything, but he's very much a separate rock-guitarist in my mind. If you really break it down, he's in two different head-spaces when he's playing blues and when he's playing something else. I think the feeling is always there and he gets that from the blues, but the notes, the licks, the overall dynamics and progression is pretty distinct. (*see note)
Hendrix does a lot of the Albert King stuff all over the place and there's a lot of Buddy Guy there too. And I like how I think Robert Cray put it on the first Crossroads DVD when he said "Buddy Guy was psychedelic before there was psychedelic." A lot of those Hendrix tunes are very, very blues based. I don't think for a second that Hendrix didn't think he was playing blues when he played Voodoo Child for example. I think Hendrix's rhythm-guitar style (it was rhythm but lead at the same time really) and general approach to songwriting on guitar sticks out more than his lead playing. I love his lead playing and he was great, but I'd take Clapton's lead playing over his any day. You put Clapton's lead with Hendrix's rhythm and songwriting and you've got yourself a force to be reckoned with.
(*and to fully get Clapton, you really gotta listen to a lot of early Cream bootlegs. The stuff he was doing was just out of this world and officially released records tell like 3% of the story on Clapton as a guitarist.)
_________________
-Elliot
Barco 1208s/e
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Mark_A_W
Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 3068
Location: Sunny Melbourne Australia
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| Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 1:51 am Post subject: |
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God I hate guitar music (except some blues).
Didn't any of you lot mispend your youth going to Dance Parties (real underground warehouse ones, not commerical "events")?
Give me some 90's techno/hard trance/goa trance any day. Techno achieved perfection in 1994. You don't know what you missed if you think a rock concert is fun.
And classical too, Beethoven is the best. And Ambient.
I frickin hate rockstars. They are wankers, not stars. I read Axel Rose is missing. Good. Hope he stays that way.
Visions of Shiva 4 eva.
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Zebu Fellenz
Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 2567
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| Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 2:03 am Post subject: |
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| Mark_A_W wrote: |
Didn't any of you lot mispend your youth going to Dance Parties (real underground warehouse ones, not commerical "events")?
Give me some 90's techno/hard trance/goa trance any day. Techno achieved perfection in 1994. You don't know what you missed if you think a rock concert is fun.
Visions of Shiva 4 eva. |
You talking about "electric noise" like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cILjqRLduWg 
I do listen to some techno but it is more filler noise than music to me.
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huggy
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Posts: 927
Location: Melbourne,Australia
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| Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 2:08 am Post subject: |
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Techno I am not into music,don't listen to it never,never had,never will.But one thing I know is that Techno sucks arse big time,my workers allways have some kind of music blaring in the background on site,I'll put up with any and all of it (including classical)but when they bring a Techno disk to work,well lets just say that that doesn't happen anymore. 
Dave
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gonyr
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 138
Location: western NY
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| Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 2:44 am Post subject: |
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| Curt Palme wrote: | Bah, to each their own. My musical tastes are all over the map. THe last interesting band I heard (got a free CD from a radio station) was Dragonforce. Not something I'd listen to all the time, but talk about chops.
I don't like getting into the 'dude, that band SUCKS' arguments.
Now, if you want to talk about the crappy sound quality of the new Metallica album....I'm all over it. Give me the Black album any day.. |
I thought Dragonforce was interesting too. But I saw a clip of them attempting to play live on youtube. Absolutely horrendous. I'd guess a lot of their stuff was multiple takes spliced and edited together.
Totally disagree about Metallica - not about the sound quality, but about the music/songs on the new album. It's by far the best thing they've put out since Master of Puppets. Thankfully Hetfield finally gave up on the idea of singing ballads and went back to shouting his way through songs. I gave that band up after Load and S&M, but I think this is a huge comeback for them. Now if only Axl, Slash, and Izzy could settle their differences...
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jask
Joined: 17 Mar 2006
Posts: 10187
Location: kamloops BC
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| Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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I saw VH 3 times before DLH left, never liked Hagar as any more than a good simile of the old bands sound... they had a few good cuts but just not the same...
I was at the show in Victoria B.C. when Dave kicked a guy in the head for trying to tear some of the leather tassels off his boots while he sang; didn't even pause singing till the crowd started to Boo...Dave explained why he soccer kicked the guys head then looked at the guy and said "...After the show I am going to f*ck your girlfriend"....
...yeah, he got sued...
Malmsteen sucks, technical ability is only part of the mix, I would rather listen to Botch.
And if we are throwing other guitar heros into the mix how about Al DiMeola,...oh yeah what about Ry Cooder....
must .. stop.....
now
...
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gcom007
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 112
Location: Beverly Hills, Michigan
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| Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 2:14 am Post subject: |
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| Mark_A_W wrote: | God I hate guitar music (except some blues).
Didn't any of you lot mispend your youth going to Dance Parties (real underground warehouse ones, not commerical "events")?
Give me some 90's techno/hard trance/goa trance any day. Techno achieved perfection in 1994. You don't know what you missed if you think a rock concert is fun.
And classical too, Beethoven is the best. And Ambient.
I frickin hate rockstars. They are wankers, not stars. I read Axel Rose is missing. Good. Hope he stays that way.
Visions of Shiva 4 eva. |
I don't agree with you about guitar music. But at the same time I do.
Brahms > Beethoven though. Maybe the best...I've been obsessive about Ravel lately too...I always paid more attention to Debussy as an impressionist but something about Ravel has really gotten to me in the last year. I do not like Mozart much. He's just too effing pretty. If you want to talk about someone modern making AMAZING classical music, look no further than Eric Whitacre. He's primarily a choral writer/conductor but his music is just mind-blowing. Some of the most beautiful I've heard. I can't wait to hear what he's putting out in 20 years.
But about guitar music again...umm, no. I mean, I love blues music. It's probably my favorite too and it's at the root of everything I do, but I still love guitar music. I don't prefer a lot of the wanker stuff to be honest. I can respect the musicianship and technical ability, but it's not really for me. I tend to not be as into guys who play a lot of notes. I guess I can say, even as a guitarist (my primary instrument but I play a bit of piano as well and will likely learn plenty more through the years) I prefer the guitar serve a part in a bigger sound.
I love D'Angelo. He's a R&B/Neo-Soul guy who surrounds himself with outstanding musicians that have jazz chops and pop sensibilities. Check out these two tracks. Maybe not your thing, but that's more the way I think about the guitar as a composer/songwriter. Again, the genre is more neo-soul, but you can plug the sensibility behind the playing into any genre and you get what I'm about.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fce41OOpUPk - ft. Charlie Hunter on 8-string guitar (bass string plus 6-string guitar)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s11XaUKsMU8 - ft. the amazing Chalmers "Spanky" Alford
_________________
-Elliot
Barco 1208s/e
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gcom007
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 112
Location: Beverly Hills, Michigan
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| Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 2:17 am Post subject: |
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| jask wrote: |
Malmsteen sucks, technical ability is only part of the mix, I would rather listen to Botch. |
He does nothing for me. A great player who mentored me a bit early on said of/to guys like him, "Ok, now that you're done practicing, how about you play some music for me?" That about sums it up...
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-Elliot
Barco 1208s/e
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24396
Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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| Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 2:24 am Post subject: |
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| gonyr wrote: |
Totally disagree about Metallica - not about the sound quality, but about the music/songs on the new album. It's by far the best thing they've put out since Master of Puppets. Thankfully Hetfield finally gave up on the idea of singing ballads and went back to shouting his way through songs. I gave that band up after Load and S&M, but I think this is a huge comeback for them. Now if only Axl, Slash, and Izzy could settle their differences... |
I'm not arguing the songs at all, I agree fully with the above. Funny, if I don't like a new song right away as with the Metallica I've heard, I usually buy it and it becomes a favorite. If I like something right away (yeah, the catchy 'I kissed a Girl' did it for me), but I end up shelving it within 6 months.
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24396
Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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| Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 2:33 am Post subject: |
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BTW, I believe the guitar that Eddie is playing in my avatar is now in Dimebag's grave...
There's another killer guitarist. (no pun intended.. )
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gcom007
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 112
Location: Beverly Hills, Michigan
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| Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 2:43 am Post subject: |
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| Curt Palme wrote: | | gonyr wrote: |
Totally disagree about Metallica - not about the sound quality, but about the music/songs on the new album. It's by far the best thing they've put out since Master of Puppets. Thankfully Hetfield finally gave up on the idea of singing ballads and went back to shouting his way through songs. I gave that band up after Load and S&M, but I think this is a huge comeback for them. Now if only Axl, Slash, and Izzy could settle their differences... |
I'm not arguing the songs at all, I agree fully with the above. Funny, if I don't like a new song right away as with the Metallica I've heard, I usually buy it and it becomes a favorite. If I like something right away (yeah, the catchy 'I kissed a Girl' did it for me), but I end up shelving it within 6 months. |
I feel like this is true of newer pop music, but older pop music that hits you fast I think still lasts. I think every Buddy Holly song hits you hard the first time and never lets up. It's just as great and catchy today as it was 50 years ago.
_________________
-Elliot
Barco 1208s/e
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Heywood Jablome
Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 1548
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| Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 3:17 am Post subject: |
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Thought I'd jump in with some 3rd party recommendations from another forum... kinda jives with the purpose of this thread (at least WRT the feelings about yngwie malmsteen!)
http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/t/112262.aspx
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"Those countries which lag behind in industry, in the application of mechanics and technical chemistry, in the careful selection and utilization of natural products, where the respect for such activities does not permeate all classes of society, will unfailingly decline in prosperity. They will sink faster when neighbor states, with an energetic exchange between science and industry, go forward with renewed vitality."
-- Baron Alexander von Humboldt: 1769-1859
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stuffandpuff
Joined: 30 Jul 2008
Posts: 69
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| Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 4:41 pm Post subject: Re: Curt likes Ed but not DLR? |
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| gcom007 wrote: | | stuffandpuff wrote: | | emdawgz1 wrote: | | stuffandpuff wrote: |
Jazz is full of self absorbed masturbators trying to convince themselves and their audience that they are making relevant music. EVH has more feeling in his playing than 90% of musicians. The Song/Riff always came first with VH. The other well known players from the 70s 80s could not write a memorial tune if their life depended on it. This applies to Jazz as well. 75 % of all music sucks, 20% is mediocre and the last 5% has some real talent.
I have to mention that I saw Pat Metheny in concert recently and he is the cream of the crop in Jazz guitar. I also saw Allen Holdsworth a couple years ago in a small setting, and being a huge fan of his music I was thoroughly disappointed in the live show. It was 120 minutes of pissing up a rope. No songs, just the most amazing players playing as fast as they can... I was bored to death after 15 minutes.
I will say the biggest applause came when they played a tune off of Metal Fatigue. It was the only tune they played all night that had any song structure and a melody you could follow. The reaction of the audience reinforces to me that people like good songs over amazing technical playing anyday. EVH is not and never has been a technical player. He just had fast hands. |
EVH is very good. But he's no Hendrix. He's not the greatest.
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I never said he was Hendrix or the greatest. but I can't think of a more relevant rock guitarist since Hendrix. Clapton, Beck and the rest were basically blues players. I like them all. I just can't get over the fact that someone would suggest Eddie plays with no feeling. |
But to be fair, rock is basically blues. I'd say Hendrix's lead style was even more blues-based than Clapton's and certainly Beck's. When Clapton plays blues, he plays it straight. He'll have blues touches in everything, but he's very much a separate rock-guitarist in my mind. If you really break it down, he's in two different head-spaces when he's playing blues and when he's playing something else. I think the feeling is always there and he gets that from the blues, but the notes, the licks, the overall dynamics and progression is pretty distinct. (*see note)
Hendrix does a lot of the Albert King stuff all over the place and there's a lot of Buddy Guy there too. And I like how I think Robert Cray put it on the first Crossroads DVD when he said "Buddy Guy was psychedelic before there was psychedelic." A lot of those Hendrix tunes are very, very blues based. I don't think for a second that Hendrix didn't think he was playing blues when he played Voodoo Child for example. I think Hendrix's rhythm-guitar style (it was rhythm but lead at the same time really) and general approach to songwriting on guitar sticks out more than his lead playing. I love his lead playing and he was great, but I'd take Clapton's lead playing over his any day. You put Clapton's lead with Hendrix's rhythm and songwriting and you've got yourself a force to be reckoned with.
(*and to fully get Clapton, you really gotta listen to a lot of early Cream bootlegs. The stuff he was doing was just out of this world and officially released records tell like 3% of the story on Clapton as a guitarist.) |
I agree completely.. If you dig far enough, all rock music is blues based played louder with more aggressive. I was just making the point that Hendrix was really the first to use the elements of an electric guitar to bring it all into a different direction.
Actually I was making more of a point about EVH playing. I just hate it when people lump him in with all those technical typewriter players.
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