CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

[draganm]

[caligraphic]

Kris

i see you have already made a protest to Paypal land also arranged to have this CRT evaluated by VDC. I apologize for this. As you have gone this route i must insist you continue. I know the people at VDC and suggest charlie A will be the best one to give evaluation of it. I am also massively interested to hear a number of industry experts have specification for a what a burn should be. my experience limited as it is would indicate that phosphor blemishes are not regular nor are they repeated identically on two areas of the same crt and that phosphor burns are in fact irregular and are reliant upon image displayed, beam current and are effected by any particular calibration process that is taking place at that time.


I digress, as we are going through this trial by witch hunts lets see it through to its conclusion. After all these evaluations are complete return the CRT to me and we will continue with the offer i made earlier to but i insist that you complete the path you have gone down as it is only fair. Charlie from VDC can publish his findings and we can have Paypal also review the results

My evaluation of this CRT will be worthless in comparison to the experts you have access to.

[caligraphic]

no need for any apology. my posts are purely my humble opinion and from the burning that has occurred one would have assumed that all the experts out there actually have handled and seen the crt, that is certianly what i would have expected from these comments. but that is me.

I am a member of a similar forum in another industry. i would suggest that we may police our own forum a little better. and when new people enter our industry and assist in resolutions of problems and raise the bar in terms of service and price competitiveness we applaud them and assume positively things in the absence of evidence to the contrary.

your forum seems a little different. not wrong, just not what we expected and after 9 months i have grown weary of it all.

Someone buys a crt, burns it and accuses us of hiding from him when we won't respond daily and hourly to his incessant phone calls and emails. well we have a day job.

i am sure VDC will be pleased to see you all beating a path to their door.

good luck.

regards

[Tom.W]

Are the defects visible on the face of the CRT or only the screen shots ?

Pictures please...

[zGman]

Boo!

[KrisRoberts]

Okay.

Sending the tube to VDC for evaluation is fine with me.

Some guy buys a tube from you.
The first one has silicon residue and nicks on the face of the tube glass, does not appear new.
The second one does not appear to be a Panasonic tube as advertised.
Upon installation the tube shows blemishes the very first time it is turned on.
The original tube never showed spots like that, and after re-installing it it has continued to work fine.

Posting to this forum and AVS, nobody has responded by recognizing the blemishes as burns or been able to suggest what malfunction in the projector would produce them if they were.

To the naked eye (and even with a magnifying glass and a flashlight), the second tube looks fine. But your quality control sent me the first tube that had issues you could see right away. Yes, that makes it difficult to accept that the second was truly flawless leaving your facility.

If I had any notion that I had fumbled something, left a component disconnected, experienced anything unusual at power up, or left my favorite three random dot test pattern on overnight - I would own it and never would have sent the tube back to you in the first place.

Yes, I think getting VDC to evaluate the tube is a good idea.

[Chuchuf]

So I guess I am out of the loop on dismounting it for Kris as was left on the phone message for me yesterday? Sorry I am traveling and couldn' return the call.

Terry

[draganm]

I think it's good to have an expert and Neutral third part resolve this. Charlies' and honest guy and has always treated people fairly in the past. He always replaced the tubes they rebuilt when they exhibited Phosphor contamination issues.
Actually the most disturbing piece of information in this thread is the fact that Panasonic has quit making tubes and they are now being built in China. I know from experience that there is a a huge difference in quality between building things in China versus Japan.
It seems like one more nail in the coffin of CRT if we have to gamble on Chinese tubes and whether or not they are high enough quality for home theater use.

[Nashou66]

[Z-Photo]

The panasonic OEM tubes normally got a 100hour "burn in". However I am unsure if the projector OEM did this on a new built projector or if the tube OEM did this. I would expect that the Projector OEM did this as a overall quality check.

It would be reasonable to assume that these tubes (new) have never been fully tested - (sencore does not project an image).

just my 2cents

[zGman]

I was thinking it wouldn't be so difficult to use an old PJ chassis to build
a tube testing jig - I have run bare tubes for testing, and they don't overheat
if you avoid high contrast settings. That way one could see any phosphor
"defects" before shipping, and have a little more assurance & QC.
But I guess the suggestion period was over before it started - probably
my fault for being too crabby...
G

[KrisRoberts]

I have spoken with Charlie and the plan is to have the tube sent first to Terry to have the mounting hardware removed, and then on to Charlie for evaluation.

[garyfritz]

It will be very interesting to see what the pros have to say. If it turns out they're burns then you'll owe Mr. caligraphic an apology, though it may be a mystery how it could have gotten burned -- especially in a pattern like what your pictures show. Your explanation of the events -- especially considering the obviously-used first tube, and the spots that all observers here say don't look like burns -- certain make "phosphor faults" a very plausible explanation.

If the pros say it's a phosphor fault, then I'd say caligraphic has major egg on his face. Which IMHO he does already from his caustic attitude. It's clear he doesn't have any interest in finding customers in this community, since he has been pretty insulting. Whether he wants clients from this group or not, I'd personally say his attitude and communication has been pretty damn unprofessional.

[Chuchuf]

Kris,

Anything new on this??

Terry

[KrisRoberts]

Charlie received the tube, has taken a look at it and I spoke to him yesterday.

His opinion is that the pinholes are defects in the phosphor that were present in manufacturing when the tube was aluminized.

He says that when magnified he can clearly see reflective silver behind the holes.

He tells me that if they were burns that aluminum would have been destroyed from the other side of the tube face.

He does not believe pinhole spots like these could have been produced by an end user burning the tube.

[Spanky Ham]

[Chuchuf]

That's what I thought based on their small size, locations and the fact that they did not show up on any other tubes.
Good that Charlie was able to clearly see what the problem was.

Terry

[draganm]

[JustGreg]

I've been following this for learning purposes and have a question about the tube....Is that brand/type rebuildable?

[secstate]

I have to say when I had a similar problem with a VDC rebuild five years ago (two "pinholes" that showed up on a green tube after about 20 hour of use) they replaced it no questions asked.