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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Axatax wrote: | | Well, I do exactly that: 1080p to 1440x960 on a G70. Reason being, from my seating distance, 1080p and 960p are impossible to discern. What I gain from going through the VP is proper 72Hz for film, a progressive picture, and no softening from the higher resolution. I loose nothing, and only gain. |
You're throwing away 33% of the original image resolution and you're not losing anything? Sounds like you're losing 33% of the source resolution, to me!
Now, I'm not saying it would be any better with the full 1080p in tact, so perhaps you're not losing anything over 1080p displayed on your projector, but to say you're losing nothing isn't exactly accurate.
True, no softening from the higher res... But loss of resolution from the resampling. No free lunches.
The 72hz capability is a good thing... I just haven't felt like dropping $1200 on a scaler to get that.
Frankly, my G70 looks so damn good at 1080p/60, I'd rather spend my money on audio, movies, and other stuff.
SC
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Axatax
Joined: 01 Nov 2006
Posts: 403
TV/Projector: Sony VPH-G70Q (aka Barco Cine8 Onyx)
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| Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | You're throwing away 33% of the original image resolution and you're not losing anything? Sounds like you're losing 33% of the source resolution, to me! |
If the PJ can't fully resolve 1080p, there's also loss of resolution. The question is, is loosing that 33% worthwhile to gain the other attributes afforded by CRT, and is an electronic loss (scaling) less detrimental than mechanical loss (overlap)? In my case yes, and it's easily observable by the press of a button (I can switch between 1080p60 and 960p72 on demand).
IMHO, the ability to run arbitrary refresh rates and resolutions is one of the greatest (underutilized!) aspects of CRT.
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Axatax wrote: | | If the PJ can't fully resolve 1080p, there's also loss of resolution. |
I know. That's why I said "...so perhaps you're not losing anything over 1080p displayed on your projector..."
| Axatax wrote: | | IMHO, the ability to run arbitrary refresh rates and resolutions is one of the greatest (underutilized!) aspects of CRT. |
In complete agreement, here. I love the idea of it - I just wish it didn't take a $1200+ piece of hardware to do it. Probably why it's underutilized, eh? A lot of us didn't pay $1200 for our projectors!
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garyfritz
Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 12088
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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| Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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Hell, I didn't pay $1200 for my projector AND my Moome EXT-HD !! 
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Axatax
Joined: 01 Nov 2006
Posts: 403
TV/Projector: Sony VPH-G70Q (aka Barco Cine8 Onyx)
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| Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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Where is this $1200.00 number coming from?
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CRT_Ben
Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 1684
Location: Northern Virginia
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| Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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| CIR Engineering wrote: | | Well, the Lumagen HDP can be had for $1199.00 /snip/ |
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Axatax
Joined: 01 Nov 2006
Posts: 403
TV/Projector: Sony VPH-G70Q (aka Barco Cine8 Onyx)
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| Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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That's certainly not the only option.
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, but there aren't any other cheaper options that can handle a 1080p/24 input and output 800p/72 or 96i or whatever... are there?
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Axatax
Joined: 01 Nov 2006
Posts: 403
TV/Projector: Sony VPH-G70Q (aka Barco Cine8 Onyx)
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| Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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I don't know. But I bet there are cheaper private sales to be found than buying a B stock unit from the manufacturer. VPs seem to depreciate rather fast as the prices tend to be artificially high to begin with.
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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a used Lumagen HD (current model) sells for about $700., that's what I sold one for with the optional BNC outputs. I should have tried it to see if 72Hz would really make a big difference but like Gary I simply run an HD player direct to moome device @60Hz.
Thing is I never see judder. The only thing I notice is a folding of the image in slow pans,looks like a strong fan blowing on a roll up screen. Can anyone tell me what causes this.
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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| draganm wrote: | a used Lumagen HD (current model) sells for about $700., that's what I sold one for with the optional BNC outputs. I should have tried it to see if 72Hz would really make a big difference but like Gary I simply run an HD player direct to moome device @60Hz.
Thing is I never see judder. The only thing I notice is a folding of the image in slow pans,looks like a strong fan blowing on a roll up screen. Can anyone tell me what causes this. |
That's judder isn't it?
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4269
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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| Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Axatax wrote: | | Where is this $1200.00 number coming from? |
I am an authorized dealer, and that's what I and other dealers are authorized to sell the VisionHDP for. That is new, B stock is 10% less.
craigr
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Mark_A_W
Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 3068
Location: Sunny Melbourne Australia
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| Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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| WanMan wrote: | Ok, so the next question is ... if I try the XG what would I need in preparation, hardware wise, for taking the DirecTV HR21's and PS3 a source feeds to get the best results. I guess this is a question for either the HTPC forum or the video processor forum. Can a all-in-one processor be had for $2-3K that will bring the most out of the XG?
I am pretty sure I know who'll set the thing up (not me, but probably Terry). |
The PC you typed this on may be fine.
All you need is a BD drive and some cables.
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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Another thing 1080p has over 1080i is brightness, Ken Witcombe explained this to us at cliffs meet, when 1080i is on the screen only half of the phosphor is being lit up at any one moment in time, with 1080p its all on, it will be a bit softer but now you have to determine what you like more, sharpness of a brighter pic. I wish he had time to show us with his light meter,I think he said he tested it, but his theory makes sense.
nashou
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Mark_A_W
Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 3068
Location: Sunny Melbourne Australia
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| Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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That depends on the refresh rate.
At 1080i 60hz compared to 1080p 60hz that is true - half as many lines lit over the same time period.
But 1080i 120hz (which would be smooth for film and US TV) would be the same as 1080p 60hz.
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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| AnalogRocks wrote: | | draganm wrote: | a used Lumagen HD (current model) sells for about $700., that's what I sold one for with the optional BNC outputs. I should have tried it to see if 72Hz would really make a big difference but like Gary I simply run an HD player direct to moome device @60Hz.
Thing is I never see judder. The only thing I notice is a folding of the image in slow pans,looks like a strong fan blowing on a roll up screen. Can anyone tell me what causes this. |
That's judder isn't it? |
if that's judder then YES, I see judder at 60Hz:?
| Mark_A_W wrote: | That depends on the refresh rate.
But 1080i 120hz (which would be smooth for film and US TV) would be the same as 1080p 60hz. |
1080i 120Hz sounds pretty radical, has anyone here actually tried this? anyone know off hand what the bandwidth is for this rez?
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Axatax
Joined: 01 Nov 2006
Posts: 403
TV/Projector: Sony VPH-G70Q (aka Barco Cine8 Onyx)
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| Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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Draganm,
YGM (Videogon).
| Quote: | | 1080i 120Hz sounds pretty radical, has anyone here actually tried this? anyone know off hand what the bandwidth is for this rez? |
If this could be done, no need to worry about film vs. video rates, as 120 is evenly divisible by 24 and 60.
Last edited by Axatax on Sun Oct 12, 2008 9:20 pm; edited 2 times in total
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jask
Joined: 17 Mar 2006
Posts: 10187
Location: kamloops BC
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| Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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Don't listen to these fanatics!! that projector is an anchor- if you put it on the ceiling it will fall on your head and kill you. I have PM'd you details of how to ship it to me... for safe disposal.
no??....
Seriously that is a great projector and before you even think of trading or selling you need to see it in action. I would personally start out by hooking it to the computer and run it as an HTPC ,you can see roughly what it is able to do at various resolutions and may even find that you like the HTPC as a source. At very least you will then have the projector set up if you want to audition other source gear.
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4269
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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| Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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| draganm wrote: | | AnalogRocks wrote: | | draganm wrote: | a used Lumagen HD (current model) sells for about $700., that's what I sold one for with the optional BNC outputs. I should have tried it to see if 72Hz would really make a big difference but like Gary I simply run an HD player direct to moome device @60Hz.
Thing is I never see judder. The only thing I notice is a folding of the image in slow pans,looks like a strong fan blowing on a roll up screen. Can anyone tell me what causes this. |
That's judder isn't it? |
if that's judder then YES, I see judder at 60Hz:?
| Mark_A_W wrote: | That depends on the refresh rate.
But 1080i 120hz (which would be smooth for film and US TV) would be the same as 1080p 60hz. |
1080i 120Hz sounds pretty radical, has anyone here actually tried this? anyone know off hand what the bandwidth is for this rez? |
I use 1080i 120 Hz on lots of projectors and it's not radical at all. It is the exact same bandwidth as 1080p 60 Hz. The advantage of 1080i 120 is that if you have a video processor that can do IVTC then you will have zero judder on film and US video. 120 is an even multiple of both 24 and 60
On some projectors like tricked out 9500LC's or on the G90 you will likely be able to see scan lines at some points so on these projectors 1080i 120 isn't that great...
craigr
_________________
JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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Axatax
Joined: 01 Nov 2006
Posts: 403
TV/Projector: Sony VPH-G70Q (aka Barco Cine8 Onyx)
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| Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I use 1080i 120 Hz on lot of projectors and it's not radical at all. It is the exact same bandwidth as 1080p 60 Hz. The advantage of 1080i 120 is that if you have a video processor that can do IVTC then you will have zero judder on film and US video. 120 is an even multiple of both 24 and 60 |
This would also mean going back to analog connections from the VP to the PJ. No problem unless you're trying to interface a BDP, etc. to the processor via HDMI (necessitating another black box).
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