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Stonefool
Joined: 24 Dec 2006
Posts: 253
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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If I remember correct, you need to run the cine6 in 4:3 format to do 1080i, and you'll need a better video processor then the Iscan Pro ... or an (HDFury1 coupled with something like the) RTC2200 -- to be able to tweak horizontal- and vertical-width/height and alignment -- or perhaps a Box1020/40 for auto alignment ... or an HDFury2. You'll have an easier time with setup and convergence, and (because?) you don't need to "overwork/stress" the pjs internals.
You'll still loose some information, due to the Cine6 limitations.
An 800x600 resolution is still the best fit for it though.
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Trying to get everything to work.
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papegoja
Joined: 08 Jul 2008
Posts: 19
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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Where in Sweden do you live?
I'm located in Trollhättan and could maybe give you some hints.
//Bengt
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Kangas1000
Joined: 08 Oct 2008
Posts: 18
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| Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 3:14 am Post subject: |
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I just wonder if I got the right distance from screen to cine6....
I have installed it at the distance that is displayed on the installation menu at Barco menu..
What is the best distance if you have a 215-220 cm screen?
Do you go from front of the green tube to screen or?
(Bengt.. Jag bor I Sala ca 13 mil från S-holm.. vore trevligt att kunna prata lite svenska så man förstår bättre..
Har även samma namn på minhembio om du även finns där)
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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jantje112
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Posts: 328
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| Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Kangas1000 wrote: | I just wonder if I got the right distance from screen to cine6....
I have installed it at the distance that is displayed on the installation menu at Barco menu..
What is the best distance if you have a 215-220 cm screen?
Do you go from front of the green tube to screen or?
(Bengt.. Jag bor I Sala ca 13 mil från S-holm.. vore trevligt att kunna prata lite svenska så man förstår bättre..
Har även samma namn på minhembio om du även finns där) |
Just maximize the size on the tubes and move it in the right position. More fosfor usage means more resolvingcapability
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Stonefool
Joined: 24 Dec 2006
Posts: 253
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Kangas1000 wrote: | I just wonder if I got the right distance from screen to cine6....
I have installed it at the distance that is displayed on the installation menu at Barco menu..
What is the best distance if you have a 215-220 cm screen?
Do you go from front of the green tube to screen or? |
Wow 220, is that for a 4:3 or a 16:9 screen?
If it's a 4:3 screen it's 100"+ and that's a too big screen, in my opinion. But to each his own ...
Simplest thing to do is but the PJ on floor shooting on your screen wall and then moving the PJ back or forth until you get to the right distance. Of course you should have already done everything else, like maximazing your raster. Setting up image within the raster for the highest resolution you're going to use, etc, etc. It is better to be a bit too far from the screen rather then a bit too close. Too close don't give you any headroom so to speak.
| Quote: | (Bengt.. Jag bor I Sala ca 13 mil från S-holm.. vore trevligt att kunna prata lite svenska så man förstår bättre..
Har även samma namn på minhembio om du även finns där) |
Aha, förstår du bättre på Svenska trots den engelska jargongen och uttrycken?  )
Sätt projektorn på golvet, och flytta den fram eller tillbaka tills du för den storlek på bilden du behöver, vill ha. Detta förutsätter att du redan gjort de grundläggande inställningarna, som att maximera raster, den använda fosforytan. Ställa in bild så att den är centrerad och maximerad inom rastret, den använda fosforytan, på den högsta upplösningen som du ska använda, etc, etc. ... hmm med allt vad det innebär.
Således vill du använda 1080i så är det den upplösningen som du ska använda när du mäter avståndet. (Kuriosa kanske, men hade din PJ klarat av 720p så hade det varit just 720p och inte 1080i som du behövt använda, även fast du ska använda 1080i. Kommer inte ihåg vad det kallas för, men 720p använder mer bandbredd, MHz, än 1080i, och ju högre bandbredd destå "mindre" blir bildytan initialt inom rastret, den använda fosforytan, typ ... innan man justerar bilden inom rastret, den använda fosforytan. Enkelt test är att t ex nollställa allt, köra in en 480p signal, och jämföra med en 576p signal. Hmm, kanske inte så viktig info, men men.)
Me, 3 mil fr S-holm. 
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Kangas1000
Joined: 08 Oct 2008
Posts: 18
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| Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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Feels like I know things now that I needed to know before i putted the PJ in the roof:-)
Ok .. so now it is time to start over again... OR put screen down a bit. It is a 4:3 PJ... and I can adjust my sides on screen wall a bit to.
I dont want to move PJ if I dont really really have to...
So what is the size you recommend? Now I have to put "width" on PJ to 92-95 off 100... I guess this is not so good for the fosfor...
But I dont think it´s going outside it by far though... I will maximazing and se how the green tube is responding then..
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Stonefool
Joined: 24 Dec 2006
Posts: 253
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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There is the width of the raster within the phosphor layer and then there is the width of the actual image within the raster area.
If you can through a 576p @ 50Hz, standard PAL progressive, image on you're current screen size, a 1080i @ 50Hz resolution should be able to fill that screen as well, because both resolutions are about the same in bandwidth use, simply put. So the only thing you should need to do is maximazing the image within the raster.
But if the raster is maximazied and the image is maximized within the raster area and you still can't fill the screen, then you need to either move your PJ back, or get a bit smaller screen. Or, of course, stick with a lesser resolution, and or frequency, that the PJ like.
Checking the raster, you need to lower Contrast to 0-5 (start with 0 or 1), push up the Brightness to 80 (or higher if need to), then looking into the green tube, you should be able to see the lit raster within the phosphor area, which should be centered and maximized according to no more then the safety rules specify (read more on this under FAQs/Tips/Manuals->Tube/Raster Setup.)
If you run a movie during the raster setup, you'll also see how much of the raster area that is used by the image. So if the image is less (in this case width) than the raster and you don't fill the screen, then add to the width. Now, if you can't get the image to just about the raster edges, you need a videoprocessor or computer to manipulate the video timings, otherwise move the PJ back.
If your raster is sized as it should be, and the 1080i image within that raster area is at the edges but, no more, and even if this is only because you have maxed out on the adjustments, you get an image of proper size, but you can't converge, you should know that the "smaller" Barcos (don't know about the 8xx series or up) don't like uneven videotimings, like uneven porch settings (don't know why though). Not to forget about that a Barco may go mental if you feed it the wrong signal polarity, and sadly a source player, lika an HDTV box, can use different signal polarity with different resolutions, which gives very bad headaches, err, convergence problems ... in a best case scenario.
Don't know how much sense I make, if any, I'm not the best teacher-like trolls after all ... however if you think you need to speak to someone directly, on the phone, I think I could probably make slightly more sense, and I could try that, but, of course, but it might be a big maybe on the making sense part. )
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Kangas1000
Joined: 08 Oct 2008
Posts: 18
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:10 am Post subject: |
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THX Stonefool... I am on it! I think I need to move my poor cine6 back a feet or two acctually.
Mabe we need to go over this over the phone sometime soon..
Is it so..that it is harder to do a perfect convergence if you have maximized raster on smaller Barco´s?
If I get further distance to screen.. then I don't use max of raster... thats not good either.
But like it is right now.. raster att top off screen is just 2-3 millimeters from going outside raster max.
and the second or third vertical line in grid from left is living it´s own live...
Can I have a easier convergence if I try to have a bit smaller raster and put it back a feet?
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Kangas1000
Joined: 08 Oct 2008
Posts: 18
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:16 am Post subject: |
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And one more thing...can I ask if this Courner Focusing is possible on my Cine 6?
And is that scheimpflug something to get "grid" turn a bit? if you know what I mean?
Like straighten it out a bit... My corner is not soo good right now.. and the focus on Blue tube is not getting good on far right and left side..
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Stonefool
Joined: 24 Dec 2006
Posts: 253
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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Kangas
I should have posted this two days ago, but apparently my old ISP wasn't too happy with me still using there mail server me thinks ... hmm.
Any way ...
| Quote: |
Is it so..that it is harder to do a perfect convergence if you have maximized raster on smaller Barco´s?
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No, it's not the raster size that gives you problems with converging I think, but stuff like the polarity of the signal, and of course using close to maximum, or beyond maximum, bandwidth. And not to forget the reality of "smaller" Barcos having problems with uneven settings of the whole front porch, back porch, etc, in the video signal/timings. (Only my experience though.)
Otherwise, convergence problems are usually ones own screwups, usually never hardware problems, well unless one self screw up the hardware, heh.
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If I get further distance to screen.. then I don't use max of raster... thats not good either.
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True. But then again the used-raster "should" be about 0.5-1 cm from the edge. It's the whole safety thing.
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But like it is right now.. raster att top off screen is just 2-3 millimeters from going outside raster max.
and the second or third vertical line in grid from left is living it´s own live...
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Like I said 0.5-1 cm from the edges, for safety reason. Don't want to accidently blow a tube or two right? It should be that distance left and rigth, and up and down, using a 4:3 size.
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Can I have a easier convergence if I try to have a bit smaller raster and put it back a feet?
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If using more gives weird convergence problems, well, I don't know, I've never tried. Usually convergence problems are A source screw ups, B, ones own screw ups. But of course if you don't follow the "rules" and you have sensitive hardware, who knows? (It would still fall under ones own screw ups though. ) )
| Quote: |
And one more thing...can I ask if this Courner Focusing is possible on my Cine 6?
And is that scheimpflug something to get "grid" turn a bit? if you know what I mean?
Like straighten it out a bit... My corner is not soo good right now.. and the focus on Blue tube is not getting good on far right and left side..
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Ehrm, yes?! Or, what do you mean by corner focus, some PJs can manipulate the corners more then others, but all has corner focus.
Scheimflug is used to get proper focus from the PJ from the PJs particular distance to its screen. And, if I understand you right, then yes, your convergence is going to depend on proper focus, so if your focus is off then your convergence will be off ... unless your one of those that correct for it on the fly, so to speak. However, you won't get super wierd convergence problems if the focus is off, just slight slight ones.
***
If you think a phone call would help, I'll of course try, but I'm not a wizard. Just a happy camper. 
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Kangas1000
Joined: 08 Oct 2008
Posts: 18
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| Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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THX Stonefool.. I have done after you're advise and put down raster a bit...
So I have done it... I moved cine6 30 cm back. So now I can use the screens full width again. it´s also feels like it´s a bit easyier to do geometry and convergence. I still have a problem in upper left corner though... red line is like a banana! Why is it so? upper left square is the hardest to do... then is Blue freaking out of focus to.. just one or two lines from the edges.
but know when I read about HDfury2 I want that one.. is it for me whit my low bandwidth? Or should I stick whit this one?
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Stonefool
Joined: 24 Dec 2006
Posts: 253
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Kangas1000 wrote: | THX Stonefool.. I have done after you're advise and put down raster a bit...
So I have done it... I moved cine6 30 cm back. So now I can use the screens full width again. it´s also feels like it´s a bit easyier to do geometry and convergence. I still have a problem in upper left corner though... red line is like a banana! Why is it so? upper left square is the hardest to do... then is Blue freaking out of focus to.. just one or two lines from the edges.
but know when I read about HDfury2 I want that one.. is it for me whit my low bandwidth? Or should I stick whit this one? |
Hmm, only times I've had major convergence problems has been when not switching all the connectors required for changing from table mount to ceiling mount, which gives some really wierd warping. Re-seating a convergence board, and actually failing to re-seat it properly. But most often my problems usually have been to do with too many memory blocks with too many different resolutions and scan rates, especially when having maxed out controls/settings on some.
I've never had hardware going bust, I've beleived it often enough though, but in the end it's always been, well, me. 
I don't know if your problem could be strictly hardware related, so I have to say you probably did something wrong. 
Yes I think the HDFury2 would be a good upgrade, if for nothing else you'd be able to take advantage of an 576p HDMI signal directly. You get a bit sharper image as well if you only have one digital to analog conversion. Otherwise the player converts to analog, the video processor converts back to digital to process the image, then convert it back to analog. Since the HDFury2 supposedly centers an image correctly it could make it easier doing 1080i HDMI as well.
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