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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:38 pm Post subject: UPDATE!!!! |
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Update!!!!
Just got this from Dale after I sent an inquiry :
| Quote: | Tom,
Everything is all set except for welding hinges and handles which will happen tomorrow. If I can get an open press in the next couple of days, I'll start setting it up and dialing it in. I hope to have some parts to show you by the end of this week.
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This is good news as I will be Going to Greece on the 13th of May till June 9th by that time they should have the scedual
for the bellows on the list!!
Athanasios
_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
One Smart Dog!!!
Marquee High Performance Bellows now shipping!!
Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
Marquee C-element and Bellow removal
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:26 pm Post subject: Bellow Samples Made!!! |
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Well Guys its getting CLOSER!!!!!! I went to Apple Rubber today after Dale
called me and said s few sample were ready and If i wanted to see how they
are made to stop buy. Well that was earlier in the morning while I was at work
cooking so as you can imagine i messed up a few orders as I was excited to see
how they came out...... AWESOME!!!!!!!! As I sit here they are next to me on
the counter and all I can think of is....
" I love the smell of Rubber in the Evening... it smells like Victory!!!"  
I get to the plant and Dale take's me into the conference room to show the three bellow samples.
Very nice work!! they look awesome!!! We went over a few things and he said they can
make some changes to the hight of the reveals but He and I feel the amount of compression
those reveals will give should suffice.He still had my entire LC housing minus the face plate, and
the C-element and ring all fit perfect.
Next he asked me if I want to watch him make one, of course I said SURE!!! So we walk back tot he prototype area
and there was one person making large O-rings on another press. Before that Dale showed me the rubber blob used
for the Bellow and he weighed out between 81.5 to 82.5 grams. At first he figured 100gr but there was lots of overflow.
Then he showed me the heated Press that squeezes the mold which was in the press getting hot.
Heated Press with Marquee Bellow mold getting ready
Heat controls for Press, 360ºF is the required temp for 470 seconds 
He pulled the mould out of the press and showed me the three sections.
Top and Middle section
Bottom section for the Undercut of the C-element section
The Top section is actually 2 pieces, the center is held in by threaded pins, the section with the reveals is the part the round and raised rectangle section are held onto.
Close up of top section
This next section is what puts the holes for the screw locations and forms the outer side of the bellow.
Middle section
Rubber used to make new Bellows!!!
81.5 gr's of Rubber placed in mould
Bellow partially pulled out of mould after pressing!!!! Isn't she beautiful!!!
here are the four bellows with the metal mounting ring on to show fit and the donor below Dale cut up
to measure the reveals.
Nice New Bellows!!!!
I am going to put one back onto the 8 Inch LC tube i took the donor from and not use any silicon to see how well
the reveals work. The only thing is I wont be able to test it running. I'll leave it on paper for a few days to see if it leaks . If I have time I may try to hook up the magnetics and run it in with the tube on.
Dragnm I'll send you out one to also test, and one to Curt also. and the fourth I'll put onto a 9 inch tube
but I need to get the face plate anodized first so it might be after I get back from my trip on June 9th.
this also happens to be around the time dale said they will be able to get ours into production.
The way these things look I am confident they will work just as good and probably better than the originals due to the new material over the 99% Silicon old bellow, Dale said these have a way better vapor transmission number
than silicon.
Athanasios
_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
One Smart Dog!!!
Marquee High Performance Bellows now shipping!!
Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
Marquee C-element and Bellow removal
Last edited by Nashou66 on Fri May 01, 2009 2:06 pm; edited 2 times in total
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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I think I heard someone at VDC whispering about placing an order...... 
Maybe you should get an exclusive rights agreement with this company making them for you.....
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 11:37 pm Post subject: |
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I second that. Get the world wide rights on paper!
_________________
Tech support for nothing
CRT.
HD done right!
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Fri May 01, 2009 12:41 am Post subject: |
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that would be cool, although i have a feeling I will soon be buried with CRT work. Still, I have three lugs and three LC chambers sitting here so I would be more than happy to try one.
I can't believe this actually happened, it's amazing what can be done today when there's enough will-power to do it. now all we need is to start re-making C-elements 
I also don't think denying anyone the right to purchase these is a good idea, especially the last company on Earth making new tubes in Louisianna. Still, anyone who wants to buy these in bulk should have to buy them from Athan, not apple rubber
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Fri May 01, 2009 1:16 am Post subject: |
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| draganm wrote: | | Still, anyone who wants to buy these in bulk should have to buy them from Athan, not apple rubber |
This is what I was referring to........ 
But single item also unless he wanted to give up his rights to that. Unless to molds are already considered his since he invested the time and money in the project...
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Mark_A_W
Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 3068
Location: Sunny Melbourne Australia
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| Posted: Fri May 01, 2009 1:35 am Post subject: |
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That's really impressive Athan - to do this off your own bat. Well done.
I do this kind of stuff for a living - getting things made, and I know how much fun it can be to organise.
I hope you get enough people coming good on buying them that you cover your tooling cost.
Mark
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MikeEby
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 5237
Location: Osceola, Indiana
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| Posted: Fri May 01, 2009 1:41 am Post subject: |
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Those do look sweet. Nice Job!..What durometer material are they?
Mike
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Doing HD since the last century!
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Fri May 01, 2009 2:26 am Post subject: |
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| macgyver655 wrote: | I think I heard someone at VDC whispering about placing an order......
Maybe you should get an exclusive rights agreement with this company making them for you..... |
When I first started this Dale said Id have exclusive rights to the moulds to make the bellows. So if any company wants to make a large run Apple would let me now and i could decide what royalty I would charge. its not in writing but i think he mentioned it in an E-mail. I'll ask him via E-mail.
| Draganm wrote: | that would be cool, although i have a feeling I will soon be buried with CRT work. Still, I have three lugs and three LC chambers sitting here so I would be more than happy to try one.
I can't believe this actually happened, it's amazing what can be done today when there's enough will-power to do it. now all we need is to start re-making C-elements
I also don't think denying anyone the right to purchase these is a good idea, especially the last company on Earth making new tubes in Louisianna. Still, anyone who wants to buy these in bulk should have to buy them from Athan, not apple rubber
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Thanks Drag, I also agree someone who can make C-elements would further the push towards making every marquee out there an LC !!!! CJ can make the upper and lower plate's I'll Supply the Bellows and I know there are some here could make the LC housing all from milled Aluminum and weld them to the same design as the cast pieces. Actually I think it be better that way. Who was the person that mentioned the C-elements could be made where they work?
| Mark wrote: | That's really impressive Athan - to do this off your own bat. Well done.
I do this kind of stuff for a living - getting things made, and I know how much fun it can be to organise.
I hope you get enough people coming good on buying them that you cover your tooling cost.
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Thanks Mark it was A lot of fun working with Dale, and the tooling department there really liked the challenge!!
Dale said they all came to watch the first part come out. They mostly work in very small medical use products
or the super large and super small O rings. This was Something special for them. I also hope I get most of the tooling costs back. But just the satisfaction of doing something for this hobby was more than I can explain. I think we all in our lives want to do something We and others can be proud of. this i guess is mine, now The next big thing is to find a mate and have some kids I am sure it is much more satisfying watching your own flesh and blood grow up than getting a bellow made .
Aslo i might have a buyer for a bunch... I'll spill the beans but I have not heard from them in a while. Q-4 services was interested in about 20 for testing them, more if they liked them so we will see if that pans out but I doubt it.
| Mike wrote: | Those do look sweet. Nice Job!..What durometer material are they?
Mike |
They decided on a 50 durometer Ethylene-Ppropylenye after going over the info on operating temp Galen offered and the glycol's corrosiveness. Speaking Of Galen I havn't seen him post lately... I hope he is ok, i think he mentioned he had some issue's.
Thanks for all the encouragement form everyone here.
Athanasios
_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
One Smart Dog!!!
Marquee High Performance Bellows now shipping!!
Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
Marquee C-element and Bellow removal
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MikeEby
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 5237
Location: Osceola, Indiana
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| Posted: Fri May 01, 2009 2:41 am Post subject: |
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Wow 50 is very soft, 80 is probably the most common durometer, it sounds like the guy knows what he's doing so you should be ok....Do you know what the originals were?
Mike
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Doing HD since the last century!
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Fri May 01, 2009 2:55 am Post subject: |
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| MikeEby wrote: | Wow 50 is very soft, 80 is probably the most common durometer, it sounds like the guy knows what he's doing so you should be ok....Do you know what the originals were?
Mike |
The material department there went over the old belows with a fine tooth comb and did a vapor transmission test
on the old and new material aslo.
| Dale wrote: |
Here is an update on the rubber bellows...
I went over the operating environment, checked chemical compatability with our materials assistant and measured the hardness of the bellows supplied. It appears that a 50 durometer Ethylene-Ppropylenye would suit your application the best. |
Aslo this
| Quote: |
The material isn't a custom formulation. It is one of our standardard compounds we use for various projects. I can provide a material data sheet on the compound but it won't tell you much as far as permeability. It is just going to be the standard hardness, tensile, elongation and modulus, and specific gravity. However, the QC lab recently set up a procedure for a vapor transmission test. This test looks like it would provide useful data with regard to the moisture and sweating issues. We could run the Ethylene-Propylene side by side with a silicone (since the sample you provided was silicone) for comparison. All we would need is for you to supply the Ethylene Glycol/Glycerol mixture. I think we would need a pint or so to do the test, but I will confirm how much is actually needed as I think they test 3 samples and take the average for the results. If this is something you want to try, let me know. Normally there is a lab fee for running special tests. No need to worry about that, the guys in the lab just want to try out the test procedure they set up. I think this would be the first test for them. Just let me know. |
And this
| Dale wrote: | Here are the results of the vapor transmission. The EP performed much better than the silicone, at least 7.5 times better. I had the lab cut a sample off of the bellows and it did end up as silicone like the first scan.
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And yes these guys know there stuff, if their O rings that NASA first tested for the space shuttle were used those astronaught's would still be alive, NASA went with another company that could do them cheaper... 
Athanasios
_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
One Smart Dog!!!
Marquee High Performance Bellows now shipping!!
Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
Marquee C-element and Bellow removal
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Fri May 01, 2009 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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My House smells like Ethylene-Ppropylenye, just from 4 bellows!!!!
Guys no need to worry i have an e-mail confirmation i will save now about the exclusive rights.
| Dale wrote: | | That is correct. We would need your permission to supply this part to anybody else. No need to worry about that. At least your fellow members have your back! |
Athanasios
_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
One Smart Dog!!!
Marquee High Performance Bellows now shipping!!
Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
Marquee C-element and Bellow removal
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Fri May 01, 2009 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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I always thought the hardness of the originla bellows was wrong, they were simply WAY too stiff. If you look at the bellows on a sony G70 they are very soft, like a rubbery cloth, and when was the last time you saw a G70 leak (hint = never).
the Ethylene Pro compund is ideal for this app., I don't why Silicone was ever used at all? I guess we don't have to worry about that any more, this problem is fixed once and for all.
Athan are you going back to the old country looking for a wifey? My advice to any single man is find a wife who knows how to and likes to cook. Every other quality in a woman will quickly loose it's luster but a hot home cooked meal at the end of a long day NEVER loses it's appeal.
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Willie
Joined: 13 May 2006
Posts: 169
Location: Green Bay
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| Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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Athanosios,
When will these officially become available?
Thanks,
Willie
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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stefuel
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 3353
Location: Green Harbor MA USA
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| Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:41 am Post subject: |
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You might have to change the name of this thread soon as there will be another projector soon that will use your bellows I'm going to have about 3-4 weeks off in a row so I might just have to finish Igor up
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Chip
A Barco is only a AmPro with training wheels
Card carrying member of the AVS chain gang.
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CRT_Ben
Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 1684
Location: Northern Virginia
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| Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:26 am Post subject: |
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wahooooooooooooooo
Can't give you enough props for pulling this thing together!
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:59 am Post subject: |
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| stefuel wrote: | | You might have to change the name of this thread soon as there will be another projector soon that will use your bellows I'm going to have about 3-4 weeks off in a row so I might just have to finish Igor up |
I think your project is very very cool Chip, If it works i have a feeling marquee LC chambers are going up in price....
but how many Ampro's are out there that would want to do it?
Thanks Ben, it was a lot of fun doing this thread. Dale was very interested about the whole CRT thing and also curious on how Dragan's test bellow held up. He still thinks no Silicon would be needed because of the calculations he did with the pressure the metal gasket, the spacing of the screws and the hight and compression of the ridges around the bellow contact sides.
I plan to try that on a 8 inch LC housing i took the donor bellow from, that donor bellow did not have any silicon on it and was not leaking, it was only sweating.
Hopefully I'll have time to start shipping on friday to those who already paid. For the US it will be about 5 dollars and to canada 11 if the box is under 1 lb, if it is more I'll eat the difference for you who per paid. I thank you for doing that, it is what pushed me to pursue this.
Athanasios
_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
One Smart Dog!!!
Marquee High Performance Bellows now shipping!!
Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
Marquee C-element and Bellow removal
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MikeEby
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 5237
Location: Osceola, Indiana
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| Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 2:17 am Post subject: |
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I think Athanasios new nick name should be "Dr. Bellows" (I Dream of Jeannie)
Mike
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