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Arno P
Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Posts: 282
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 4:12 pm Post subject: 9500lc ultra optical focus / pj positioning |
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Well, after the first few days with my recent installed 9500lc ultra (G17) I get used to the menu's and I did a first set up (and I never thought about my 1272 at all  ), result was not bad at all...BUT...
Center is sharp and left-right and top-bottom could be a lot better. Since the image on the crt face looks sharp, it mustbe the optical path. Scheimpflug still needs to be done for a bit but the defocus for left and right seems equal and top-bottom seems similar (so Scheimpflug okay-ish)
The current screen is 2 meter wide and the image on the crt is covering the maximum of phosphor width...would shifting backwards of the pj (and need for a wider screen) improve this mentioned off-focus of all the sides?
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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Location: West Seneca NY
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24396
Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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No, the GT 17s should be fine for this screen. It's most likely the adjustment of the Scheimpflug bolts. Play with them some more, but if the tube face is sharp but the screen is not, then you have an optical issue which will be those bolts.
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nuttall_chris
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 832
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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I was able to get visible scan lines with my 9500Ultra, corner to corner with GT17 lenses. Keep working at it and you should be able to get it almost perfect.
Chris.
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Arno P
Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Posts: 282
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | Getting the Scheimflug perfect is one of the hardest things to do on a Projector next to CPC magnets. Also some times using the maximum face of the tube say a few mm form the edge puts the image on areas of the tube that just dont focus well. Give the Schleimfug another try and then maybe make the raster a bit smaller on the edges, maybe 7-10 mm. Just keep working at it.
also read the focus guiide by Guy Kuo.
http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3484454#post3484454
Athanasios |
Scheimpflug will be the next to optimize, but I figured ...if both sides (L/R, T/B) are almost equally unfocussed correcting Scheimpflug won't help much (please do tell me that's wrong  )
And the Guy Story I read many times when I had the 1272....let's re-read it
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Last edited by Arno P on Mon Jul 21, 2008 5:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Arno P
Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Posts: 282
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Curt Palme wrote: | | No, the GT 17s should be fine for this screen. It's most likely the adjustment of the Scheimpflug bolts. Play with them some more, but if the tube face is sharp but the screen is not, then you have an optical issue which will be those bolts. |
Gonna tweak a lot next days
@ Chris
Very good to know that the G17's are ok with this screen-size, (then rebuilding my HT for 40cm wider screen falls into the category nice to have again). What screen width did you have with that adjustment?
Going to work on it....making cycle after cycle all parameters till the last bit is squeezed out
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Last edited by Arno P on Mon Jul 21, 2008 5:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
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nuttall_chris
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 832
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Arno P wrote: | | Nashou66 wrote: | Getting the Scheimflug perfect is one of the hardest things to do on a Projector next to CPC magnets. Also some times using the maximum face of the tube say a few mm form the edge puts the image on areas of the tube that just dont focus well. Give the Schleimfug another try and then maybe make the raster a bit smaller on the edges, maybe 7-10 mm. Just keep working at it.
also read the focus guiide by Guy Kuo.
http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3484454#post3484454
Athanasios |
Scheimpflug will be the next to optimize, but I figured ...if both sides (L/R, T/B) are almost equally unfocussed correcting Scheimpflug won't help much (please do tell me that's wrong ) |
It's possible that one corner is "over focused" while the other corner is "under focused" To fix this you will need to adjust both the "up/down" and "right/left" adjustment.
Chris.
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Arno P
Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Posts: 282
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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| nuttall_chris wrote: | | Arno P wrote: | | Nashou66 wrote: | Getting the Scheimflug perfect is one of the hardest things to do on a Projector next to CPC magnets. Also some times using the maximum face of the tube say a few mm form the edge puts the image on areas of the tube that just dont focus well. Give the Schleimfug another try and then maybe make the raster a bit smaller on the edges, maybe 7-10 mm. Just keep working at it.
also read the focus guiide by Guy Kuo.
http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3484454#post3484454
Athanasios |
Scheimpflug will be the next to optimize, but I figured ...if both sides (L/R, T/B) are almost equally unfocussed correcting Scheimpflug won't help much (please do tell me that's wrong ) |
It's possible that one corner is "over focused" while the other corner is "under focused" To fix this you will need to adjust both the "up/down" and "right/left" adjustment.
Chris. |
Now That's a good thought, makes sense....Perhaps the most important part for me is to understand the cause of the problem (and the second thing of course to get it solved )
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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| nuttall_chris wrote: | | Arno P wrote: | | Nashou66 wrote: | Getting the Scheimflug perfect is one of the hardest things to do on a Projector next to CPC magnets. Also some times using the maximum face of the tube say a few mm form the edge puts the image on areas of the tube that just dont focus well. Give the Schleimfug another try and then maybe make the raster a bit smaller on the edges, maybe 7-10 mm. Just keep working at it.
also read the focus guiide by Guy Kuo.
http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3484454#post3484454
Athanasios |
Scheimpflug will be the next to optimize, but I figured ...if both sides (L/R, T/B) are almost equally unfocussed correcting Scheimpflug won't help much (please do tell me that's wrong ) |
It's possible that one corner is "over focused" while the other corner is "under focused" To fix this you will need to adjust both the "up/down" and "right/left" adjustment.
Chris. |
Chris is right, Also that is what Scheimphlug does,it is the focus of the left/right/top/bottom which then puts the corners into focus.
Athanasios
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Arno P
Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Posts: 282
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | | nuttall_chris wrote: | | Arno P wrote: | | Nashou66 wrote: | Getting the Scheimflug perfect is one of the hardest things to do on a Projector next to CPC magnets. Also some times using the maximum face of the tube say a few mm form the edge puts the image on areas of the tube that just dont focus well. Give the Schleimfug another try and then maybe make the raster a bit smaller on the edges, maybe 7-10 mm. Just keep working at it.
also read the focus guiide by Guy Kuo.
http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3484454#post3484454
Athanasios |
Scheimpflug will be the next to optimize, but I figured ...if both sides (L/R, T/B) are almost equally unfocussed correcting Scheimpflug won't help much (please do tell me that's wrong ) |
It's possible that one corner is "over focused" while the other corner is "under focused" To fix this you will need to adjust both the "up/down" and "right/left" adjustment.
Chris. |
Chris is right, Also that is what Scheimphlug does,it is the focus of the left/right/top/bottom which then puts the corners into focus.
Athanasios |
Excellent! Makes sense to me....now I have to wait for the Inch-screw-driver-bit that I ordered to adjust the scheimpflug (Metrics here in Holland  )
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donaldk
Joined: 17 Jun 2008
Posts: 308
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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Arno the USA has officially been metric for about a century, when it comes to distances and derived sizes, it is just that they keep insisting on this funny way to describe these metrics. Somehow there seems to be a need for them to keep clinging to the status of Imperial Colony.
Decimals rule;-).
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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| donaldk wrote: | Arno the USA has officially been metric for about a century, when it comes to distances and derived sizes, it is just that they keep insisting on this funny way to describe these metrics. Somehow there seems to be a need for them to keep clinging to the status of Imperial Colony.
Decimals rule;-). |
Yes but the canadians designed and built the Electrohome 9500LC
Athanasios
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Arno P
Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Posts: 282
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | | donaldk wrote: | Arno the USA has officially been metric for about a century, when it comes to distances and derived sizes, it is just that they keep insisting on this funny way to describe these metrics. Somehow there seems to be a need for them to keep clinging to the status of Imperial Colony.
Decimals rule;-). |
Yes but the canadians designed and built the Electrohome 9500LC
Athanasios |
A big "A" dude
Metrics might rule....but I still need the inch tools for my marquee 
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Gino
Joined: 22 Apr 2006
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Location: Trinity Beach, AUSTRALIA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:58 am Post subject: |
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Arno, have you done the electronic focus zone adjustments?
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Arno P
Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Posts: 282
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 6:52 am Post subject: |
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| Gino wrote: | | Arno, have you done the electronic focus zone adjustments? |
Yeah I did, but since the CRT image is in focus...it has to be the optical path (and I dont like that zone stuff...first the hard way )
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Arno P
Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Posts: 282
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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Got the 3/16" Hex bit today and I could start the scheimpflug adjustments....guess what?
That was it
What a wonderful feature (after years with a 1272, mounting rings and stuff to correct the lenspositions)
Adjusted the stig after that and got nice round spots in the middle and in the corners in looked more like a guitar pick  in best case (normal?)
The lower part of the screen was still a bit less in focus that the top part (shortes distance to the pj in case of ceiling mount). To improve this I will adjust the image on the CRT tube a bit better to the center so taht the image covers the best part of the lens (or maybe tilt the pj a bit more to the groung? Couple degrees?)
DVD is already showing its limitations with this setting and can't wait for my BR/HD drive
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Nashou66
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Arno P
Joined: 01 Jan 2007
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Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | the bottom focus can be adjusted more witht he Scheimflug you love so much ! If you cant get it perfectlyu focused top and bottom together try to find an average focus so both top and botom are equally focused.
Athanasios |
THX
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Arno P
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Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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Today, I started from scratch...pattern centered on CRT's, Tubes toe-in...all centered on screen....Scheimpflug...went well...but is seems that the scheimpflug vertically is in its maximum position (screw in as far as in as possible) and the lower screen side just doesnt look as sharp as the top and the top cant be made further "unsharp" as the bottom
Could it be that the tilt angle of the projector needs to be a bit different to get back a bit of scheimpflug adjustment range?
At this moment the pj is in the default position perfectly horizontal ...resulting in the built in tilt of 10 degrees (right?)...will increasing this angle to about 10..15 degrees improve the scheimpflug adjustment range?
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Nashou66
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