CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

[antorsae]

The devil You just made me do it... I am going to buy this:

http://sewelldirect.com/Blackmagic-Design-Intensity-Pro_specs.asp

To test what you just suggested.

Right now I am using my HTPC as the only source but the software I modified to do 1:1 edge blending with gamma compensation, 10-bit processing, etc... This is a labor of love for me... if you want to play with my software, etc. just let me know and I'll send it over... I've improved it a lot since I last reported here. I've been very silent b/c I am just enjoying movies....

[Nashou66]

[Boilermaker]

[antorsae]

You're right about 1080p - I am not going to use that anyway (non-HTPC sources for me are just XBOX360 and PS3 and no games I play are 1080p... so 720p60 would suffice) ... but that being said it would probably make more sense to get this one http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/techspecs/ instead. It supports DirectShow which is what is required to be pluggable into the SW blend.

[Boilermaker]

Since it appears that there are at least a few people interested in the possibility of a blend, I thought that I should share some of my experiences with it to help anyone considering doing a blend. The easiest way to do this is probably by just listing points and trying to give my opinion on the differences between the available methods.

There are currently three ways to create a blend: The Diventex (sp?), the TVone, and the software method as done by Andre. Sorry, but I can't help with any info on Andre's software solution as it is way above my pay scale. You have to have a big brain. Perhaps he can add his thoughts. My experience with the Diventex is very limited, but because I ended up using the TVOne's and I learned from every one of the many mistakes I made, hopefully I can give some good advice.

The advantages I see for the Diventex are that it is a one box solution. The TVOne requires two boxes and therefore any operational or programming changes need to be done twice. This means that if you decide to go with the TVOne, I highly suggest using a separate scaler (Lumagen, DVDO, etc.) to perform multiple input switching and AR control and allow the TVOne's to do nothing but the blending.

The second advantage I see to the Diventex is in its ability to shape the gamma correction within the blend zone whereas the TVOne's are less adjustable. I have found, however, that if both projectors are perfectly matched in their grayscale/gamma curves, the blendzone with the TVOne's does become invisible.

The first advantage of the TVOne's is pricing, but remember that while you might be able to get away without a separate scaler on the Diventex, it would be a major PITA to do so with the TVOne's.

The second advantage I see with the TVOne's is its ability to customize the output resolution to whatever you want. It will store more than 100 different resolutions and they are all customizable. The Diventex does not allow for customizable resolutions and the resolutions available do not correspond to any of the ATSC HD standards. This ability means that you can set your resolution such that it is a perfect 1:1 pixel mapping and also such that you are really saving bandwidth. For example, a 10% blend using output resolutions of 1064X800 @72 Hz. refresh would allow for perfect 1:1 mapping of a 2.4 AR film based movie with absolutely no manipulation of any pixels, and no scaling or de-interlacing. The end result would be that the video frequency of this would be such that each projector sees is actually less than conventional 1080i.

There are some issues that I feel you should consider if contemplating a TVOne blend that Athanasios and I have discovered, so I'll list them here:

1 - There might be some sort of HDCP or EDID handhake issues - Athanasios has some issues, and we also found that if the VideoEq's were placed before the TVONe's in the signal chain, there would be no video output. This problem was solved by using the VideoEq's after the TVOne's which required me to use a pair of Moome Mux boxes as D/A converters instead of just using the analog outputs of the TVOne's. This occured even if the original source was analog which couldn't contain any HDCP!

2 - While they are capable of storing many output resolutions, in order to change the selection, you must navagate through the menu section of each box to make the change. It takes a few minutes, and is hardly user friendly. While you can select 60Hz as your output for all sources, if you decide to use 72 Hz for film based sources, you will find that 72Hz is so jerky with 60 Hz video sources that it is unwatchable. Your choice here.

3 - While I don't deny that there might be some professional calibrators that can perfectly match both projectors, I highly recommend that you have separate CMS systems such as Lumagen, VideoEq or the new DVDO Duo. Athanasios has chosen the Lumagen route as he already had one, but I had to buy a pair of VideoEq's to get the job done.


My experience has shown me that this is one of those things with a relatively long learning curve, but once you finally get it right, it would be easy (but still somewht time consuming) to do again!

Would I recommend anyone to do this - Absolutely!!! You will be rewarded with a PQ that is truly incredible. Now that I have done it, I would not want to live without it.


Bob

[Nashou66]

Nice Write up Bob.

I was looking through the Tv-One catalog and they have another Blend scaler not listed on the Blend section of the web site and it is significantly lower cost than the C2-2250's looking at my dealers price list.
its the Model 1T-C2-760. it has 2 dvi inputs, no LCD screen but it can be controlled via the Corio2 PC software.
The latest version is really nice because you can control an array of Corio2 based processors at the same time
just by switching tabs. Also they have an edge blending set up software I have not tried yet.

I think someone could get into blending with these for a little more than the cost of 1 C2-2xxx model.
So about 2200 or so for two units , I don't have the price list in front of me but It is in that ball park.

Bob is right about my HDCP issues so i use the Moome MUX before the Tvones and Lumagens and use that as a splitter
since it has one hdmi and one DVI. Moome said he is making new units with 2 HDMI and HDMI audio to boot!! I asked him to add an HDMI audio specific out as well for us blenders. I also use the Mux as my source switcher since it has 4 hdmi inputs. It is a great unit for anyone to have as it totally eliminates any HDCP issues. I hate HDMI.

Bob uses HD-SDI so that is another way to avoid HDCP but it is very costly and you need HD-SDI inputs for the one of the processors, either the Tv-ones or the radiance or use a HD-SDI to HDMI/DVI converter. Both methods work well to avoid HDCP, just pick your poison.

The biggest issue is matching both PJ color Gamut, greyscale, and Gamma at the typical 11 point IRE's.

once Tv-One writes the windows based 256 point Gamma control that they might even add CMS to it will be arguably the de facto blend unit on the planet.

But there is possibly another in the works, and not from TV-One....

Bob I am glad you keept pushing me and continue to. i need a reliable probe.
Sounds like the DIY HFCR probe you borrowed is better than the i1-'s so far.

I found another issue with my i1 yesterday. I figure if i use the screen offset and then have the probe face the screen i would get higher readings for Y as more light will go into the probe. I got worse Y readings, droping in half. with your D2 it went up. i really think i have a bum i1 pro. Also it would not read the red and green color gamut unless i tried it at least 5 times. blue read on first try each time.

ok i am digressing here.

Athanasios

[Boilermaker]

I just took a look at the specs for that new model C2-760 and they are identical to the 2350A for 1/2 the price!

If you look at the picture of the front panel it has two buttons labeled "preset 1" and "preset 2". My guess is that is for two output choices which means that to switch from video source to film source would be just a couple of button pushes or maybe just an IR button!

Hey - If they choose to activate the full grayscale/cms that it is capable of, this blending thing just got real cheap!


Bob

[Nashou66]

[Boilermaker]

[Nashou66]

Here are some pics of Bob's NEC Blend screen shots along with some pics of his set up. He's still learning how to host pics etc so I said I'd do it for him.



I bet Curt will like some of this stuff












I like how Bob built the tweeters into the wall same with the drivers. maybe he'll comment on what he did.
Pretty cool I think!!!


Custom built 4 inch square steel tubing!!!

















Its his first time with screen shots but really good I think!!!

Great work Bob !!!!

Athanasios

[dturco]

Holy sheep sh*t!!! Anyone who uses Bryston power is alright in my book. That "Rig" for the p/J's is cool too. Hell the whole DIY bit is fantastic.

[ChrisWiggles]

Cool setup!

What the heck is that amp!?

[Boilermaker]

[Boilermaker]

NOSTALGIA QUESTION - Anyone recognize the component just above the Otari reel to reel? Yes Curt, I know you were in diapers when they were used!!!

Bob

[Tim in Phoenix]

[Nashou66]

Tim Two TV-ones can be had for about 4k maybe less for the Digital version and if you want to go analog its even less, and with custom resolutions.



Athanasios

[Boilermaker]

[Boilermaker]

[Nashou66]

Very cool, I remember you telling me the story about the amp vis phone call. How much did that thing cost you back then?


Athanasios

[Boilermaker]