CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

[Tedd]

Can we get some details on those nicely integrated big line arrays?

[garyfritz]

Wish we'd gone for 9' ceilings in our basement, but we hit bedrock. We'd have boosted the whole house a foot or more to have higher ceilings in the basement, and it didn't seem worth it. Now I'm not so sure...

[Boilermaker]

[Gary M.]

I can't get over all of Bob's custom speaker work, that is way beyond me

that front soundstage and screen setup is just sweet

what about the center channel setup ?

-Gary

[Boilermaker]

[jantje112]

Is this blend already completed?

[Boilermaker]

Yes, if anything in this hobby is ever really finished. It still dazzles me every time I watch a movie!

I still haven't reprogrammed my i-Pronto so I use a handful of remotes, but I'm anxiously awaiting a firmware upgrade from TvOne that should have some enhancements. If it doesn't come in a week or so, I'm going to go ahead and set it up for some different resolutions to play with.

Bob

[Boilermaker]

After more than 1-1/2 years, I finally have my blend the way it should be. It was a long learning curve, but I can honestly tell you it was worth the wait!

To bring you up to speed, I'll first go through the hardware signal path and try to explain the issues that came up. I also want to thank Athanasios for the many conversations we have had to finally get it right. So, in the order of the signal path:

1 - Oppo BluRay with HD-SDI set to 1080P @24fps. The HDMI output is used for audio only. I also have a Pioneer 300 disc with sdi to store the old dvd's which I never watch anymore, and a DirecTv HD receiver.

2 - DVDO VP50pro with dual HD-SDI input module set for 1920X1080P @24hz. output. This is only used to accept the HD-SDI and as an input switcher and for AR control.

3 - Monoprice DVI splitter to give me two signals.

4 - Two TVOne C2-2350A's. Outputs are set to 1064X1080P @72hz. This represents a 10% blend area using 1:1 pixel mapping. It does no scaling, and only triples the refresh rate. At this output, the pixel clock frequency is only 68% of what a normal 1080P @60 would be. Ain't blending wonderful!

5 - Each DVI ouput from the pair of TVOne's feeds a separate AvFoundry VideoEq.

6 - Each VideoEq feeds a first generation Moome external box using its rgbhv output. The Moome is used only as a D/A converter. I chose to not use a Moome projector input card as the distance from my hardware to the projectors is a little over 50 ft. and I felt more comfortable using Canare's excellent RG-6 spec rgbhv bnc cables.

My original plan was to use the VideoEq's between the DVI splitter and the TVOne's so that I could use the excellent D/A converter on the TVOne's, but there is a compatibility problem between the VideoEq and the TVone. It would not pass a signal. I don't think it is an HDCP problem, but probably an EDID issue. I sent one of the VideoEq's to Athanasios so that he could try it after the TVOne's as he has Moome input cards. It worked!

7 - A pair of XG-110LC's with 6 new tubes. I am runniing contrast at 50 on these and there is plenty of light!

8 - My screen is 10-1/2 ft. wide, 2.35AR. It is nothing but Behr Ultra White paint on a perfectly smoothed wall using 1X4's wrapped with Duvatyne as a border. I saved some money using the paint but felt that since I wanted a gain of no more than 1.0, is was a good choice.

Athanasios and I have struggled with getting a perfectly invisible blend and since I am not an expert at calibration, the VideoEq's were the answer. While it was quite time consuming, it is possible to get a near perfect grayscale, gamma and CIE setup. I chose to use a gamma of 2.35, and am very pleased with the results. I borrowed a DIY sensor based on the HCFR design and found it vastly superior to the i-one cheap probe especially at the low end. I'm sure the expensive sensors would be even better, but they are out of my price range.

WHAT'S NEXT???

You are never finished with something like this, so I have these things I want to do:

1 - I will set up the DVDO to use "Active Area Scanning" to use 1920X817 @24 and then set up each TVOne at 1064X817 @72, so that there is no processing done and it reduces the bandwidth requirements of each projector to about the same as normal 1080i. My seating is about 12 ft. from the screen, so the scan lines shouldn't be visible.

2 - One of the issues I have with the TVOne's is that while they can store many different output resolutions/refresh rates, you have to go into the menu and make those changes. Maybe someone here knows if this can be done easily with rs-232 control?

3 - Since I am running 72 hz, I have found that watching 60hz video at 72hz is almost unwatchable. It's as though the camera man has the hiccups! I want to set up two more resolutions - one at 1064X1080P @ 60Hz for video and one more at 1064X817 @120hz just in case 3D becomes interesting. BTW, my XG's have the short persistence green tubes. It was done by accident, but I'm glad.

4 - I have designed a "hush box" for the XG's. Its a little elaborate, but as you can imagine,a pair of XG's directly overhead is like being buzzed by a pair of jet planes in stereo!

5 - I need to replace the Moome boxes with his latest mp modified boxes.

6 - Modify my XG's. Why not?

I live about 20 minutes off of interstate 70 in central Kentucky. If any of you CRT nuts are interested in setting up a blend, just let me know when you could stop by, and I'll be glad to show you what this old technology can do in blended setup.

I know - I screwed up and don't have any screen shots!! Sorry, but I'll try to borrow a camera and get them posted.


Bob

[Nashou66]

Thanks Bob for also helping me out on more than one occasion. I agree at first I thought a perfect blend was not possible with the Tv-Ones but after our conversations and more tweaking of the Pj's i see how extremely important it is to not only have exact matching greyscale but also a few other things. Listed in order of importance I think, if you want to add or change do so.

1) Match both Pj's primaries and secondaries first.

2) now match greyscale.

3) go back and check primaries and secondaries.

4) one more check of greyscale.

5) have both PJ come out of Black at exactly the same time, this is critical for when it goes from FFTB to a bright scene , if not you can see the intensity differences.

6) have perfect matching geometry and linearity in the blend zone , if not you get the heat wave over a hot street affect, or a mirage affect is the correct term.


Glad you got it all worked out. once I figure out my Probe issues I think I'll have it nailed too. The lumagen limited CMS and and its gamma controls will be a huge help.

I have to make a short two day trip down there to compare notes and watch some movies.



Athanasios

[Boilermaker]

I can only add that the Gamma's have to be identical also. There is no way I could have gotten a ruler flat gamma without the VideoEq's. There is a scene in the 5th Element near the end when it scans over outer space that is jaw-dropping. Each little star is clearly visible with an absolutely pitch black space between them.

I really want to fine touch boths sides, but am going to wait until I can get my hands on an HCFR sensor. It was more stable at 10IRE than the i-one LT was at 20IRE, and I always got repeatable results.

I think the XG's have a slight advantage in accurately setting G2 by using the guide printed here in Curt's forum. Your Marquee's probably have an advantage in their more sophisticated zone contrast setup. The XG's use a side to side black/white level shift of red and blue. I adjusted that by monitoring color temp. only on the blended sides after everything else was done. It seemed to work OK.

Yes, do come on down here to the Bluregrass and take a look. That would be fun.


Bob

[Spanky Ham]

Good to see you got it running to your satisfaction. I may have to make a blend trek through the CRT triangle of Virginia, Buffalo and Kentucky.

[Nashou66]

[Boilermaker]

[antorsae]

Hi Bob,

Glad to see there are others doing blends w/o a Marquee

100% agreement on the videoeq thingy - I was about to get it but it did not support 8-bit to 10-bit LUTs, so I am doing a similar thing with an HTPC. How did you do the calibration? Did you run the patterns in the center of each PJ's screen or in the blend zone?

Nash: remember about my auto-G2/DRIVE offer. This really helps matching the two PJs.

rgs -Andres

[Boilermaker]

[Nashou66]

[antorsae]

[antorsae]

Ops sorry msg was cut: so the VideoEq does not allow to output 10-bit if you feed it 8-bit; that's what the guys at Avfoundry told me. In an ideal world (!) you'd want the VideoEq to output 10-bit (HDMI 1.3) even when fed 8-bit as you would lose less information.

Does it make sense?

p.s. FWIW, I have not achieved full 10-bit signal path yet (I get 8-bit at the very end of my HTPC processing) - I am still looking for a video-card that does horizontal spanning and has dual HDMI 1.3 (w/ deep color support) output... and then I'd have to buy two Moomes.

[Boilermaker]

Andre - I'm dying of curiosity. Am I correct in assuming that your HTPC is set up to accept external HDMI or DVI-D source and then output two separate HDMI or DVI signals? If so, have you ever considered selling or making available your fine work to us that don't have these skills?

Thanks,
Bob

[Nashou66]