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Gino
Joined: 22 Apr 2006
Posts: 1363
Location: Trinity Beach, AUSTRALIA
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| Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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| stefuel wrote: | I hate to use the term "ISF calibration". Most of the lastest batch of ISF newb's can't find their way around a CRT projector and in many instances do more harm than good. I as well as many on this forum, have the experiance and equipment required to perform top notch calibrations without a "ISF" certification stamp next to our name  As I understand it, you also have a nack for it. Numbers generated and read on test equipment does not change based on who's reading it.
That 2-3% was not pre/post calibration but with/without post processing. Even if that figure was more like 4-5%, 5K is alot to put aside to resolve. Like I said about means and desires. Hell, look at what extent some audiophiles will go with their speaker wires. Now that really blows my mind.  |
Yeh, I hate it too, as I'd trust my CRT setup skills (particularly blending marquee's) over most people with their ISF certificate. But you gotta admit that despite doing your best to calibrate grey scale as well as you can, you will not dial it in perfectly across the IRE range, nor will your colour gamut be spot on for REC709. You could get it pretty close, but not perfect. To me, the Radiance gives me this improvement.
Also, most other gamma solutions don't give you the finer configurability of the low end gamma curve to be just how you want it. I've had moome's gamma cards and was impressed with what they did for me, but after introducing the Radiance I've since removed the gamma circuit from the moome cards as it is even better.
Anyway, back to your original question, with HD sources and AVR's with pretty good video capabilities etc... the benefits of VP's have been reduced for most people, but they still offer something to some of us. I don't think they are a thing of the past. When people start using the next big thing such as 4K resolution, scalers will be needed for 1080p Bluray to get to 4K
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stefuel
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 3353
Location: Green Harbor MA USA
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| Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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4K, hmmm, where will those Marquees be when you switch to 4K resolution?
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Chip
A Barco is only a AmPro with training wheels
Card carrying member of the AVS chain gang.
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Phil Smith
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 7717
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| Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Gino wrote: | | Phil Smith wrote: | | I just sold my house and I'm flush with money - at least for moment. I could do a Gino setup (or 3 or 4), but buying a Gino setup would very much hurt me financially in the long run, even though I have the cash. |
Well you are doing better than most I would imagine. I am only just capable of supporting my entire HT setup. Let alone 3 or 4. $150K for what I have now, add to that another $70K at the end of the year. This for someone who is earning over $300K pa. |
$150K! Jesus Gino, I had no idea. I was thinking $50-$60K. So disregard the 3 or 4 statement. 
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Phil Smith
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 7717
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| Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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How do you like the Outlaw gear? It seems like a lot of bang for the buck.
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Phil Smith
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 7717
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| Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Gino wrote: | | Chip my friend, that was more in response to Phil who has used the word 'hype' several times already in this thread. |
Guilty as charged!  I truly believe some of it is hype. Not all of it, but some of it.
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Phil Smith
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 7717
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| Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Mark_A_W wrote: | LOL, I'm now unsubscribing to this thread, life is just too short, I just can't resist having a niggle at the god botherers.  |
"Niggle" There's an Aussie word I haven't heard before.
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Gino
Joined: 22 Apr 2006
Posts: 1363
Location: Trinity Beach, AUSTRALIA
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| Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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| stefuel wrote: | | 4K, hmmm, where will those Marquees be when you switch to 4K resolution? |
Maybe I can get another 2 Marquee's and do some sort of quad blend to get to 4K resolution
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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What about those rumoured 8", 4K CRT projectors we've heard about? Will they sell to the public?
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Tech support for nothing
CRT.
HD done right!
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Axatax
Joined: 01 Nov 2006
Posts: 403
TV/Projector: Sony VPH-G70Q (aka Barco Cine8 Onyx)
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| Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | How do you like the Outlaw gear? It seems like a lot of bang for the buck. |
I've never met any 990 owners who didn't rave about it. The big problem (IMHO) is lack of any HDMI audio capability. This would not be a killer if the 990 offered BM on the analog input, but I don't think it does, either.
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Gary M.
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Axatax wrote: | | Quote: | | How do you like the Outlaw gear? It seems like a lot of bang for the buck. |
I've never met any 990 owners who didn't rave about it. The big problem (IMHO) is lack of any HDMI audio capability. This would not be a killer if the 990 offered BM on the analog input, but I don't think it does, either. |
actually it does, the Sherwood 965/Outlaw 990 etc. offer what I consider to be the best BM around on the 8 ch analog in
the unit does full BM, time and distance correction, even lip sync on the 8ch input
if I where doing 8ch analog I would look no further than this unit I did just that before updating to HDMI bitstream capability for HD/BD
-Gary
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Axatax wrote: | | Quote: | | How do you like the Outlaw gear? It seems like a lot of bang for the buck. |
I've never met any 990 owners who didn't rave about it. The big problem (IMHO) is lack of any HDMI audio capability. This would not be a killer if the 990 offered BM on the analog input, but I don't think it does, either. |
I have the 1070 in my every day system, and Adcom in my dedicated theater. I really like the Outlaw and was actually thinking of getting the 990 to replace my Adcom GTP 830.
Outlaw has not adopted HDMI for a couple reasons, they mainly concentrate on the audio side (audiophiles started the company) also because of the uncertainty and poor quality of the format the constant profile changes and the stipid
conector, according to the owner. They seem to think HDMI will be replaced as DVI was. HDMI was conceived for the smaller connector so Custom installers could feed it through smaller holes, big help when they fall out the back all the time right?
Persoally I'd like to see them make a conctor like the XLR, solid connecting ability and round to fit into custom instals and a ready availability of at least the outer casings(use the XLR case). plenty of room on the face of the conector for audio,video,and remote functions.
Athansios
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Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
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Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Gary M. wrote: | | Gino wrote: | | Gary M. wrote: | Gino how does your flow chain look with all this gear lined up, the multiple scalers and such?
I am working on a HD-SDI input mod for the Radiance and a HD-SDI output mod for the VP50pro, would love to let you see them and let me know what you think in that complex setup, with a HD-SDI output on the Radiance as well you could go 100% HD-SDI for video from source to zilla |
Sources -> Radiance -> VP50Pro -> Moome DVI -> DVX -> Moome internal
I couldn't give up 1080p72 from the Pro to the Moome. single link HD-SDI cannot support this
I'd only be interested in seeing HD-SDI sources, to HD-SDI input from Radiance, then HD-SDI output from Radiance to my HD-SDI input module on the Pro. So if you can provide the first 3 or even 2 I'd likely be interested.
Do your initial tests actually show tangible improvements with HD-SDI over HDMI? |
Gino I have just gotten started offering these mods, no comparisons as of yet, was hoping for some help with that from forums members
most people with zilla's are telling me that they can fed it a 1080i or 1080p/24 signal via HD-SDI and that the unit will output 1080p/74 or etc. for the PJ, Mike and a few of the guys say the zilla performs best when fed a HD-SDI signal, this was my main concern for attempting to offer this mod for scalers, so guys like you could fed the zilla HD-SDI
likewise you have reminded me of another application, feeding dual scalers, HD-SDI between the scalers would be ideal and I have no doubt that this would lead to the best PQ possible for a complex amazing setup like yours
I am going to use HD-SDI and a few other mod tricks to go back to RGBHV for my personal system, freeing HDMI for audio only
-Gary |
this is for the first BOLD highlighted part of your quote Gary
Boilermaker is getting two TV-One C2-2255 that have SDI in's so he might be willing to test HD SDI for you the ones I am getting are the C2-2250's with no SDI.
for the second Highlighted Quote.
Could you add dual HD-SDI outs to the sources so no spliter is needed for the HD-SDI capable TV-One units? It be Much easier for those who opt for the HD-SDI ones Like Boilermaker.
Athanasios
_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
One Smart Dog!!!
Marquee High Performance Bellows now shipping!!
Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
Marquee C-element and Bellow removal
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Gary M.
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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does Bob use a scaler in his system? going to be feeding it into the TVone unit?
Athan dual HD-SDI outputs on devices are no problem, all I have to do is add a extra BNC output, it is 100% mirrored, heck I could do more than that if needed
I never offered dual outputs on my SDI mods or etc. but now that I think about it it would be nice for some and as I said it is easily done if requested
thanks Athan
-Gary
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Gary M. wrote: | does Bob use a scaler in his system? going to be feeding it into the TVone unit?
Athan dual HD-SDI outputs on devices are no problem, all I have to do is add a extra BNC output, it is 100% mirrored, heck I could do more than that if needed
I never offered dual outputs on my SDI mods or etc. but now that I think about it it would be nice for some and as I said it is easily done if requested
thanks Athan
-Gary |
I'm not sure what he will be using before the TV-One, with those units I really dont think you need anything, at least in the future as they said they will most likely add gamma like the lumagens for global not only the blend zone as they do now. At least thats what I got from their engineer.
Athansios
gary you should work a deal with them since they are near you.
_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
One Smart Dog!!!
Marquee High Performance Bellows now shipping!!
Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
Marquee C-element and Bellow removal
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Gary M.
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | | Gary M. wrote: | does Bob use a scaler in his system? going to be feeding it into the TVone unit?
Athan dual HD-SDI outputs on devices are no problem, all I have to do is add a extra BNC output, it is 100% mirrored, heck I could do more than that if needed
I never offered dual outputs on my SDI mods or etc. but now that I think about it it would be nice for some and as I said it is easily done if requested
thanks Athan
-Gary |
I'm not sure what he will be using before the TV-One, with those units I really dont think you need anything, at least in the future as they said they will most likely add gamma like the lumagens for global not only the blend zone as they do now. At least thats what I got from their engineer.
Athansios
gary you should work a deal with them since they are near you. |
sh*t they are Erlanger!
they have some interesting products for sure
-Gary
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VideoGrabber
Joined: 09 Apr 2006
Posts: 933
Location: Michigan
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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Gino commented:
> I'd be suprised if the VP50's couldn't, they allow so many crazy porch settings and frame rates, seemed to be as tweakable as a htpc. <
Yes, I agree. They offer almost the same set of adjustments: active trace, sync width, front & back porches. No "interlaced" toggle, though.
> Unfortunately playing with these sorts of things is no fun in my setup so I cannot test for you. Now that I have everything setup just right I don't want to muck about with my config. <
What? No fun? Sounds more like contented HTPC owners, who have things set up just right, and never have problems because they "never muck with it".
Gary wrote:
> they can do interlaced at whatever... <
That's good to hear, Gary. Looking at their configuration options, I could never figure out how to do it. Can you tell me how I'd set up AAS at 1920x816i (2.35 AR), sync-locked at 96 Hz, on one of these units, to match my HTPC? Thanks.
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- Tim
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VideoGrabber
Joined: 09 Apr 2006
Posts: 933
Location: Michigan
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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Just going back again and reviewing, to try and answer my own question, would it work to config Output Setup:
- base Format (7): 1080i-60 (to establish interlaced mode... the only one)
- override Frame Rate (4): 72 Hz locked (96i not an option, I see  )
- Screen AR (3) (or Display AR?): to 2.35
- dial Vertical Size down to: 816
- what else do I need, Gary?
Does this work?
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- Tim
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Gary M.
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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thats pretty much how you do it Tim, pick a baseline set preset and go to work, I picked 1920x1080p for my 1920x800p/2.40:1 setup for example
from there I lowered my resolution down to 1920x800, I will always use 2.40:1 vs 2.35:1 because 1920 / 2.35 is not a even number, most films are 2.35:1 so you loose a sliver at the top and bottom, fine with me for a nice even 800p with no scaling, I did use a 2.40:1 screen vs 2.35:1 as well, so all is good
I also had some bad raster ringing and noise at the left edge of my raster on my 1352lc, so I expanded it out on the NEC and brought it back in with the vp50pro, 100% perfect clean image  (another thing a scaler can do vs without one)
anyway, yes Tim, that is how you do it, if you are squeezing your raster down to 2.35:1 size on your PJ then set the screen and display both to 2.35:1
96hz not sure on that, not possible as far as I can tell, will have to check into that for you with DVDO
Tim
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Phil Smith
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 7717
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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Here's some scaler owner logic:
1. If scalers do not exist, good picture quality does not exist.
2. Good picture quality does exist.
3. Therefore, scalers exists.
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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