CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

energeezer · Joined: 08 Aug 2007 Posts: 67

I have an XG1352LC which of course got dirt cheap with new tubes and calibrated by Ken. Its been a great PJ and I’ve always used a scaler. (IScan HD+) My scaler does add quality and flexibility to SD sources.
When I got my PS3 I thought I would be able to view 1080p @ 60 direct from the PS3 without a need for scaling. Wrong, wrong, wrong due to timing/sync issues.

https://www.curtpalme.com/forum_archived/viewtopic.php@t=10767.html

So now I need to deceide.
Do I
A)Be happy with 1080i/60 from PS3. This does look great but I know I can improve significantly with either increasing the scan rate or running 1920 X 800 @ 60 or 72. I currently use 1920 X 800 @ 60 from an IScan HD+. Until I got PS3 this was by far my best source and I know the XG resolves this with no issues.

B)Get a scaler like the VP50, HDP or higher. This option gives me the best possible image but reduces my bang for the buck factor. Even a used HDP or VP50 will cost me close to what I paid for the XG.

C)Switch to HTPC. This was my pre-scaler setup but I switched to the scaler for the simplicity. Now with diligent programming of my remote the whole family including my seven year old son can operate the system and take full advantage of the various resolutions and ref rates I use. I have to admit the HTPC certainly has its selling points if you can deal with the complexity.

D) Dump CRT altogether. Sell the XG, the IScan HD+. Put this money towards something like an RS2 which by most reviewers estimations, including Gary’s, is dam close to the performance of the XG and better in many respects. This option lets me get rid of big hushbox, vastly simplify my system and allow me to appreciate the sound system again---- but I’m worried that I would still want a scaler for the primaries.

The more I consider this the more I lean towards option B or D. If I can get a VP50, HDP or higher for under $750 I think I’ll go that route. If not then its option A for now with option D approaching.

**kal** · Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 3:03 pm Post subject:

rtart · Joined: 16 Jun 2008 Posts: 132

Transcoding, anyone?

I bought my scaler (VP30) originally to transcode from component to RGB. I bought it about three years ago to add a Directivo to my NEC 9pgxtra. Didn't know about the Moome cards, or Fury option. (Not even sure they were available then.)

My setup today includes a HD DVD player, BD player and HD DVR. I use component HD signal from all three to feed the VP30, then RGB to the NEC. AYK, neither the HD DVD or BD player will output upconverted signal through component. I already had the VP30 SDI input mod and chased down a used Panny RP-82 with a SDI output for SD DVDs. Love the PQ from the SDI option, but have not been able to do a A/B comparison between BD upconvert and SDI, obviously.

As I recall, I've seen used VP30's on eBay in the $500 range, whihc makes them in the ball game to compete with the fury and Moome cards. One of the nice things is the ability to program different aspects ratios to a Pronto button, and watch HD or SD on the sat in the correct aspect ratio, via the VP30.

I do HD audio using the HDMI outputs from the HD and BD players into a Pio Elite VSX-84txsi. Works great.

If I had to do it all over today, I'd be hard pressed to pay the list price for a new VP50 today, but would jump on a used VP30.

IMHO, of course.

Phil Smith · Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 7717

CRT_Ben · Joined: 28 Aug 2006 Posts: 1684 Location: Northern Virginia

Axatax · Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 8:22 pm Post subject:

Phil, what resolution do you use for SD on the G70? IME, the sweet spot on this PJ is 960p72 for film. Without a scaler, I do not know how this can be obtained?

Axatax · Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 8:24 pm Post subject:

Phil Smith · Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 7717

Phil Smith · Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 7717

MikeEby · Joined: 24 Jun 2007 Posts: 5237 Location: Osceola, Indiana

energeezer · Joined: 08 Aug 2007 Posts: 67

Nashou66 · Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 16171 Location: West Seneca NY

I cant imagine using my marquee with out a scaler, I have the moome internal card also, tried it with out the scaler and find the image better with the scaler. also I have too many handshake issues with out it. The Gamma at 11 points the added color gammut controls and the unlimited resolution capabilities my lumagen adds ,for me, is the only way to go.

Athanasios

Phil Smith · Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 7717

Phil Smith · Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 7717

Gino · Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:02 am Post subject:

My 2 cents:

I have both the DVDO VP50Pro and Lumagen Radiance.

For native 1080p24 sources from Blu-ray/HD-DVD, what do my scalers give me over just using my Preamp:

Spot on primaries and secondaries. (Radiance)
Perfectly flat D65 tracking. (Radiance)
Completely tweakable gamma curve. (Radiance)
72Hz playback. (VP50)
Aspect ratio control for my CIH setup (both)
Tweaks to less than desirable transfers such as edge enhancement and mosquito noise reduction etc... (both)

For 1080i sources I get best possible deinterlacing (VP50)

For 720p sources I get best scaling (Radiance) and if source was poorly deinterlaced, I get PREP (VP50)

Is the $8K worth it? To me it is, that's all that matters.

Nashou66 · Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 16171 Location: West Seneca NY

VideoGrabber · Joined: 09 Apr 2006 Posts: 933 Location: Michigan

Some good comments on the pros and cons of scalers, but...

r.bauer commented:
> All good 8" CRT's will do 1080p whithout a problem. The spatial resolution of 1080i and 1080p are the same, so if 1080i goes, 1080p also goes <

Sorry, but this is just nonsense. You've completely left bandwidth out of the equation, and 1080p either requires twice the BW of 1080i, or leaves you with less horizontal detail and resolution. That's a tradeoff that many are unwilling to make.

> ...and progressive just looks so much better, it is just more easy on the eye. <

Progressive is easier on the eye... especially with a PJ like the XG with it's long retrace interval (compared to other PJs), which spends more than 1/3 of the time displaying nothing at all. This exacerbates flicker and temporal artifacts, in spite of phosphor persistence.

Gary M. · Guest

certain people in this thread have let their pocketbooks decide if a scaler is a meaningful addition to a videophile system, this is obviously not a valid argument in so many ways it isn't funny, I don't understand why it even continues

far too many posts like this in CRT areas, stuff like "oh thats overpriced so it isn't worth it and is a waste anyway" or "adds no benefit because I don't want it"

I noticed that no one had any reply to my y/c delay question? don't bother with "I don't want to pay 5k$ for correcting y/c delays" type posts either, that is only a drop in the bucket, I could easily write a book on what a scaler brings to CRT, discussing if a scaler is a thing of the past and giving the reason is that they cost too much is just amazing!

-Gary

r.bauer · Joined: 08 Apr 2006 Posts: 280 Location: The Netherlands

stefuel · Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:29 am Post subject:

There goes that hair again Wink

Anyway, there are those who feel that a scaler is a must and I appriciate that. I never said there were not benifits to them. I am wondering what direction the manufacturers will take as source devices evolve and the masses choose the easy path. Let's face it, we are a minority in the eyes of the latest brew of electronics. They exist to generate revenue. If everyone on this forum bought a VP 50, that would only amount to a drop it the bucket in the eyes of the bean counters.

Choosing with my wallet??? I've got a home to pay for, a wife and children to provide for, children to put through school, cars with insurance and GAS to consider. I need a new riding lawn mower and now this Y/C delay thing. Laughing