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fireanimal
Joined: 17 Jul 2007
Posts: 231
Location: Stayner, ON
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 1:56 pm Post subject: 1080p72 output Lumagen HDQ |
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Has anyone had any luck outputting 1080p72 from their Lumagen? I will be inputing into a Moome HDMI card on my Marquee 9500.
If so what settings and porches are you using.
Thanks!
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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No Luck but you can run the scope films at 800p@72 no problem. Looks awesome!!!!! Way better than 1080p, why use the extras bandwidth for the top and Bottom black bars. For 1080p full screen i use 48hz still looks nice. I ahvnt really tried messing with the timings for 72hz but it could be possible.
Here is an explination of those settings for the lumagen and how to calculate Back porch which must be adjusted by altering the other timing settings.
| RandyFreeman from AVS Forum wrote: | I will use Lumagens default 480p output mode as an example.
VTOT: 525 (total)
VACT: 480 (active)
VSYN: 6 (sync pulse)
VFRN: 7 (front porch)
The back porch isn't listed but you can find it easily. Subtract the other parameters from the VTOT and what is left over is the back porch.
525 - 480 - 6 - 7= 32
So the back porch is 32.
In this example I've used the vertical timing but the horizontal timing works the same way. |
So I would try to set up 1080p60 and go to the timing menu and see what those settings are and tweek them to try to out put 72hz. I havnt spent a lot of time trying but it could be possible. 1920 1080p72 I think needs 167 or so pixel clock and the lumagen is 165 just shy.
Athanasios
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fireanimal
Joined: 17 Jul 2007
Posts: 231
Location: Stayner, ON
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks, I will have to play with that once I get the Marquee back up and running.
When you run 1920x800 for scope, do you have to have another input setup on your marquee?
What do you think about reducing the width to push 72??
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 4899
Location: Flower Mound, TX
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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Another option is that since CRTs can't resolve the full 1920 (Nyquist rate limited), on non-scope content you can scale to something like 1770x1080 and that will get you the bandwidth you need.
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Dave
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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Gino
Joined: 22 Apr 2006
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Location: Trinity Beach, AUSTRALIA
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| Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 1:15 am Post subject: |
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I'd like to know that too. MP seems to think 1920 can be resolved on a 16:9 raster on an 8" tube
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fireanimal
Joined: 17 Jul 2007
Posts: 231
Location: Stayner, ON
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| Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 1:40 am Post subject: |
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1080p will not be a problem for me, as I am currently installing Mikes' latest boards in my 9500. I would love for the Lumagen to output 1080p72 to take full advantage of them.
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 2:21 am Post subject: |
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| Gino wrote: | | I'd like to know that too. MP seems to think 1920 can be resolved on a 16:9 raster on an 8" tube |
I wonder about that as well Gino, the original specs are 1600 x1200 so I dont think the 1920 is there as my lumagen
at 48hz the timings are around 1680 or so for vertical and i have it at 1050 for Horizontal I think. I know i can go higher on the H but didn't feel like messing around with it. So 1080 is possible for the H but 1920 is questionalble.
Thats why i cant wait till I get my C2-2250A units in and start to mess around with the blend.
Athanasios
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MikeEby
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 5237
Location: Osceola, Indiana
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| Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 3:28 am Post subject: |
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| Gino wrote: | | I'd like to know that too. MP seems to think 1920 can be resolved on a 16:9 raster on an 8" tube |
I think it's just a bandwidth issue rather then the tube size, on my XG-HTPC @48Hz I resolved 1080p very well but at 72Hz I get line structure with a 1:1 pattern, but it is not truly resolved. Too bad 48Hz flickers like crazy. 
Mike
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Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
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Location: Flower Mound, TX
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| Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Gino wrote: | | I'd like to know that too. MP seems to think 1920 can be resolved on a 16:9 raster on an 8" tube |
Yes, it is cute that MP thinks his mods defy the laws of physics, but they don't.
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Last edited by Person99 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 6:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
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Location: Flower Mound, TX
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| Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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| MikeEby wrote: | | Gino wrote: | | I'd like to know that too. MP seems to think 1920 can be resolved on a 16:9 raster on an 8" tube |
I think it's just a bandwidth issue rather then the tube size, on my XG-HTPC @48Hz I resolved 1080p very well but at 72Hz I get line structure with a 1:1 pattern, but it is not truly resolved. Too bad 48Hz flickers like crazy.
Mike |
It is a bandwidth issue. Even a 180 MHz bandwidth machine (Cine 9) does not have enough bandwidth to do fully do it. Simply compare a 1080p 1:1 pattern on a pixel mapped digital to the CRT, you will see that the CRT cannot do it.
Luckily, real content is not a square wave, so it looks fine. But 1770x1080 will look just as fine as 1920x1080. You'd be hard pressed to tell the difference on real content.
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Dave
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CRT_Ben
Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 1684
Location: Northern Virginia
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| Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Person99 wrote: | | Gino wrote: | | I'd like to know that too. MP seems to think 1920 can be resolved on a 16:9 raster on an 8" tube |
Yes, it is cute that MP thinks his mods defy the laws of physics, but they don't. |
Dave, can you elaborate on how CRTs are Nyquist limited? Since they aren't fixed pixel devices, I don't immediately see how it applies.
Edit: you posted while I was posting.
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Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 4899
Location: Flower Mound, TX
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| Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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| CRT_Ben wrote: | | Person99 wrote: | | Gino wrote: | | I'd like to know that too. MP seems to think 1920 can be resolved on a 16:9 raster on an 8" tube |
Yes, it is cute that MP thinks his mods defy the laws of physics, but they don't. |
Dave, can you elaborate on how CRTs are Nyquist limited? Since they aren't fixed pixel devices, I don't immediately see how it applies.
Edit: you posted while I was posting. |
Why do you think there is a bandwidth limit on fixed pixel devices but not on CRTs?
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Dave
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CRT_Ben
Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 1684
Location: Northern Virginia
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| Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Person99 wrote: | | CRT_Ben wrote: | | Person99 wrote: | | Gino wrote: | | I'd like to know that too. MP seems to think 1920 can be resolved on a 16:9 raster on an 8" tube |
Yes, it is cute that MP thinks his mods defy the laws of physics, but they don't. |
Dave, can you elaborate on how CRTs are Nyquist limited? Since they aren't fixed pixel devices, I don't immediately see how it applies.
Edit: you posted while I was posting. |
Why do you think there is a bandwidth limit on fixed pixel devices but not on CRTs? |
I didn't say that...since you quoted Gino talking about an 8" tube, I thought the matter at hand was the image area, not bandwidth...
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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Gino
Joined: 22 Apr 2006
Posts: 1363
Location: Trinity Beach, AUSTRALIA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 3:09 am Post subject: |
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| Person99 wrote: | | It is a bandwidth issue. Even a 180 MHz bandwidth machine (Cine 9) does not have enough bandwidth to do fully do it. Simply compare a 1080p 1:1 pattern on a pixel mapped digital to the CRT, you will see that the CRT cannot do it. |
MP claims his modded marquee's resolve 1080p much better than a 909
| Quote: | | Luckily, real content is not a square wave, so it looks fine. But 1770x1080 will look just as fine as 1920x1080. You'd be hard pressed to tell the difference on real content. |
I think you could tell a difference if you knew what to look for and were sitting close enough. Have you tried? Take a screengrab from a movie showing fine textures or city landscape, then resize it in photoshop to a reduced horizontal, you will see the loss of details and structure and sharpness. If I have time this weekend, I'll try posting some pictures.
It will still look good, but not just as good as 1920
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audvid
Joined: 14 May 2008
Posts: 25
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| Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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I have a 9500 Ultra (circa 2001) setup for 95" screen width, sitting at 21 ft from the screen. I am having latest mike parker mods installed. I am going to be using a hd fusion dvi to rgbhv adapter. I watch hd OTA prime time shows via directv DVR hr21 about 95% of the time.
My question is: Does lumagen HDP clearly improve the picture? A friend who is very experienced in very high end Video commented that running 1080p72 or 1080p120 might actually soften the picture. Since I sit far enough, I don't really see scan lines at 1080i. The picture is quite good as is. I have never noticed motion related problems on 1080p24 DVDs. I always use 1080i anyway. I am just trying to understand if the improvment with lumagen hdp would be that dramatic.
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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I dont think you'll get 1080p@72 from the lumagen, its out of its capabilities, but you can get close by altering the timings (front porch and back porch) with a slight reduction in vertical 1920 to about 1770 so the lumagen can run 1080p@72. Mikes mods will not show any reduction in sharpness at this level of scan rate and that is what his strict testing number is"1080p@72Hz". I run 1080p@48 for 16x9 material and 800p@72 for scope 2.35 material(you dont need the extra horizontal lines of the black bars taking up bandwidth). Also the HD fury is much softer than Moome's internal HD-VIM. look at the thread Kal posted on this.
Athanasios
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Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
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