CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

[PaulB]

Easily been trying to do the magnets for some 15 hours over this weekend and all I can say is that I'm getting absolutely nowhere

Overall focus has ended up worse than when I began. Absolute misery, in effect I really feel I'm wasting my time with this, I just can't do it right.

Biggest problem I had was seeing the bright cores in the dots, I had been running contrast at 90 to 100 but it was only when I turned contrast down to around 60 that I could actually see the bright cores, any higher and they just look like hollow circles!

I've since tried doing the magnets with lower contrast and whilst there was some improvement, the end results are invariably just not anywhere near as good as when I started nevermind actually improve them. I can feel my interest slipping here, sad to say but I'm beginning to regret buying this pj. The investment in time and money just isn't reaping the rewards that I had hoped for. This weekend has been nothing but a lesson in total and utter furstration.

I've given up for now, most likely i'll either pay someone to do it (costly given my location) or just sell the sodding thing. Lifes too short to waste time pissing about with these bloody magnets. I know that these things take time and patience but given the total lack of any even slightly positive results I'm loathe to waste any further time on it.

[Nashou66]

Paul go to the pub and a few pints, enjoy the week to come. Stay away from your PJ and this Forum. Then on saturday give it a go again. got o only 60 focus for the dots then if that were you see them. Dont give up just take breaks.

Athanasios

[Elaine Benes]

If you can't see the bright cores with contrast high, more than likely you have the focus ramped to the wrong direction. Ramped all the way in one direction, you should be able to see the bright cores, BUT, ramped all the way in the other direction, yes, all you should be able to see are large hollow circles....

I think you should just concentrate on a single color first, forget the rest till you get green "done". When green is done, have a rest, then take on red, lastly blue, as its least important to get brilliantly tight, so if you're sick of it by then you can just quit when its "good enough"....

[Tim in Phoenix]

Hello

Take Focus to 0 for Flare, and to 100 for Stig.


.

[Robert A. Hill]

Paulb,
I sympathize with you! I don't know if you are having the same problems I have with my Ampro projectors, but I have had a lot of trouble seeing the dot shape on either side of focus. Both the internal patterns and an external pattern from my HTPC just were not very bright. When I max out contrast, I got blooming and indistinct patterns. Because of the focus magnet strength, I can ramp the focus mush more in one direction than another. So changing focus for adjusting beam centering (flare?) is easier than astig. I finally got a signal generator and the dot patterns from it are very clear and much easier to adjust. The patterns are just crystal clear even at lower contrast and the change from focus adjustments are easy to see.

One trick I learned from this forum is to put up a dot pattern of two colors (red and green for instance). I use one color for a reference to make sure that the color being adjusted does not move as focus is changed. Only when the beam is properly centered will the dots remain stationary thoughout the focus range. This has to be checked frequently as Flare and Astig interact somewhat.

[Nashou66]

Paul you should use the internal dots for Astig on the marquee.

Athanasios

[J Kildare]

Biggest problem I had was seeing the bright cores in the dots, I had been running contrast at 90 to 100 but it was only when I turned contrast down to around 60 that I could actually see the bright cores, any higher and they just look like hollow circles!

Paul,
If the above statement is correct, you are ramping the wrong way. Flare is contrast 100, focus @ 0. This should give you the dot in the middle with a halo around it. Stig on the other hand is contrast 100 focus at 100. This should give you a nice round cirlcle.

Use the grid with dots.

Remove leads from the stig amp on the backplane while adjusting the magnets, work on green first (color 2). Then work on red (color 1). Then overlap red on green (color 4), ramp focus up and down and try to get the dots to track each other. Now work on blue (color 3). After you get that put blue on green (color 5), ramp focus up and down and try to get the dots to track each other. Pay paticular attention from focus 35 to 65. Now set contrast to 50 and ramp focus thru all colors together (color 8 ). Get them to track as close as you thing you can, then try some more. Do not run at focus 50 just ramp thru fast!!! Now lower contrast to 50 and ramp thru, try to get the dots to track each other.

Now plug in the stig amp and continue.

Tips I use...

For mechanical and electronic focus I use an internal patern 15 or 30 khz and and watch scan lines and the corners of letters. When scan lines are crisp you are getting close.

When done, converge at a scan rate higher than you will be using and copy down to the scan rate you will be using and touch up. (tip from MP)

Jim

[PaulB]

Thanks for the encouragement and tips guys. Its a poison chalice though. I took a break and had a few drinks as suggested (hic) and had another look at the pj today thinking that I must be doing something wrong and followed your tips above expecting to have one of these "thats it fixed, what a prat I am" moments but I was again sadly disappointed. Nothing worse than getting your hopes up only to have them dashed within minutes.

With focus at 0 and contrast at 90, this is exactly what I see (pic borrowed from CZ Eddie);



Again, Pic 4 focus at 0 and contrast at 90. Focus does ramp up and down just fine and otherwise appears to work as it should but when trying to do the magnets, I'm just not seeing any dots. I presume something is wrong somewhere?

When using a grid pattern, I can see a bright line in the horizontal grid-line but can't see anything in the vertical grid-line and there are no bright cores in the dots, nothing, zilch, sod-all, just nice hollow circles. No wonder I can't get the focus the way it should be, I have no reference to make it better. All three colors are the same. This isn't good a good sign is it? Bugger.

[Nashou66]

Paul, when ramping focus one way you'll see the round dots like in the pic, at this focus point you move the magnets to shape the dots round as they are in the pic. when you ramp the focus the other way those round shapes become blurry and you'll see a brighter dot or line or something brighter inside or on an edge, this is what you move to the center of the blurry round shape using the magnets again. one set of magnets shape the blurr, the other set moves the brighter spot around within or out of the blurr. forst try to shape the blurr round then when having focus the other direction move the bright spot to the center. Some one needs to make a small video of this so more people can see the shape changing and the bright dot moving. Maybe if I have time tommorow I'll try to see if I can capture what it looks like.

Athanasios

[J Kildare]

Paul

Have you neutralized your 2/4/6/ pole magnets?
When you rock them does your grid move?

Jim

[PaulB]

[garyfritz]

[PaulB]

Hmmm, hang on guys, I'm not getting this at all.

To quote from Tim's site;

"focus (push PIC, 4) to zero, and Contrast to 80 or 90 such that a fuzzy patch is visible at each dot, with a hot spot visible in the fuzz. "

But thats not what I'm seeing, following the laid down procedure above (and in Bill Blu's document) I'm seeing big hollow blobs.

You guys seem to be saying that I should have focus up at 100 to see the bright cores but thats not what the procedure says - ??!!

OK, just checked on the pj - I can see the cores with Focus at 100 and contrast at 100 (on the now very much smaller blobs)! - so the procedure is wrong in saying you can see the cores at Pic 4 Focus 0 and contrast at 100, yes?

Quote from Guy Kuo's Holy Focus thread on the A site (my bolds);
"The overfocused state changes the dots into a central bright core with a halo around it. Ideally the bright central core is exactly centered in the halo.

The underfocused state changes the dots into a uniformly lit blob. Ideally the blob is perfectly circular in shape at screen center. "

Overfocused presumably means Pic 4 at 100, Underfocused presumably means Pic 4 at 0. Again, (if I'm right), this reinforces the implication that the accepted documented procedure of Pic 4 at 0 to see bright cores is wrong?

[Nashou66]

Paul how are you holding up buddy? Dont give up on us alright!!!

Athanasios

[garyfritz]

Paul, honestly I can never remember which is which. I think 0 gives you blobs, 100 gives you bright core -- but I couldn't say for sure. Just run it one way or the other and see what you get, and the other end gives you the other one.

[PaulB]

Not given up guys, just put everything on hold pending arrival of a decent pair of close-focus binoculars so that I can get the magnets done without having to dash up to the screen every 30 seconds! Started to get dizzy with all the running back and forth from the screen so thought I'd give my body a rest and let my eyes do the work! Got a tripod etc so looking forward to getting to grips with the magnets and getting the pj upto speed

Yep, its definately pic 4 focus at 100 to see the bright cores Gary, found it in the manual as well, I even kicked myself to remind me to RTFM!! All that dispair for such a minor thing (albeit very, very important). I still find the magnets the most challenging aspect of a pj to undertake never mind master, not nice at all.

Been busy in the garden as well, summer weather (mostly rain ) has made the garden bloom and unfortunately needs constant attention, cutting the hedge, grass etc, etc.

Really, really want to get the Marquee up and running. Need to go over my (dummy) install as well, its floor mounted as a temporary measure and a dry run through of convergence and geometry has exposed the flaws of said install so I'll be revisiting that as well soon.

Thank for all your support guys, that was a really bad patch I went through, things were simply not working and the frustration got to me. Your encouragement got me through though and I'm so pleased that you all cheered me on

Athanasios, glad you got your issues resolved my friend. I'm actually glad that the mods have quietened down of late, gives me a chance to get the pj magnets sorted and play catch up on the pj installation/setup. Looking forward to the VIM mods though, everything else is gravy, the VIM is the meat and man, do I want to get my teeth stuck into that! Bandwidth, bandwith, bandwidth, oh yes!

I can really begin to appreciate the need for Frankenyokes and HD10f lenses on the marquee, but one step at a time.

Have a good day guys, all the best and "thank you one and all",
Paul

[Nashou66]

yeah The summer has slowed things down for me as well. Taking care of my own place and my Parents while they are in Greece till october, puts a lot of demand on my time. Plus the Squiglies are back and with a new CLM and New HDm in so I have no idea where to look next. I posted on that thread about it. At least its not the CLM mods causing the issue. Must be power related or the VDM.

Athanasios

[PaulB]

Bugger Just read your squiggly thread, I thought you had fixed it but sadly not. What an absolute pain, hope you solve the mystery soon Athanasios.

[Nashou66]

[PaulB]

Nope, just not happening for me.

Just can't seem to get the magnets right, I seem to have some sort of mental block with this, the harder I try, the harder it becomes. I must admit, its reached the point where I can't be bothered anymore, the pj just sits there and I really really can't be bothered with the hassle of doing the magnets, its like a millstone round my neck at the moment. The pleasure and excitement of owning a marquee is gone, totally. I've probably clocked up more hours on the magnets than all the other tasks on the pj put together and I've not made a single bit of progress in any way shape or form.

Everytime I start to think about doing the magnets I get a headache and start getting stressed out. Enoughs enough, I've wasted far too much time on this and when something goes from a hobby to being an absolute nightmare of a chore then its no longer fun - I think its time to leave crt for good, its just not worth the hassle as far as I'm concerned. Sorry guys but I'm outta here and won't be back.

Thanks to everyone on this forum who helped me in any way and a special thanks to Athanasios who has been an absolute star!

Bye guys.