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Wolfman
Joined: 27 Apr 2008
Posts: 27
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| Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 6:16 am Post subject: Barco RCVDS 05 question |
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I got a Barco RCVDS 05 switcher that I was planning to replace my RCVDS800 with.
I understand that many prefer the NEC ISS-6020, but this was an easy call as it was almost free and is literally in new condition. Pristine and not a spec of dust anywhere to be seen. No corrosion. Cards look brandnew.
At least for the physical condition that is...
I just can't get it to work properly 
The older switcher was a no-brainer. This one works fine on S-video, but on RGB it doesn't work properly.
2 input examples: Mac mini vga/rgb out: Images scrolls like it has no horizontal sync. On the other is HDMI via HDFury. No picture shows, just occasionally a heavily distorted (horizontal) image.
When pulling the cards (standard RGB cards), I saw that the jumper were set to sync on green, which I changed to no avail. Since there are no other settings to change other than 5 internal jumpers that the manual refers to as "floating vs. non-floating", whatever that is.
I thought this should be plug'n play... Btw. I do use the serial cable for projector control. Firmware is 2.2 and everything else seems to work as it should.
Just for fun I also plugged a component input in. Image looked fine in terms of sync, just green as expected...
Any ideas?
Thanks
Wolfgang
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secstate
Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Posts: 720
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| Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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I could never get my RCVDS05 to work with my Barco 808 not sure what I was doing wrong. It has a similar problem to yours, though I am not sure that s-video worked as I never tested it. I tried every jumper in the damn thing and never got it working. I gave up and put in the attic. Maybe this is a failure in these things. I don't know.
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Wolfman
Joined: 27 Apr 2008
Posts: 27
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| Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 6:11 am Post subject: |
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One of my inputs is an Extron RGB 404 external wall interface which I used in the past to hookup laptops, ipods, etc.
That one uses a composite sync as compared to separate sync.
Plugged in my Mac and that one works perfect, using 1280*1024@75hz. I then used a bnc coupler to combine the sync of the HD fury on another RGB card. And it works great! The PS3 at 1080p looks really nice 
So I assume that something maybe wrong with the output card or could this be in the switcher?
And is there actually a difference in picture quality when it comes to sync or is it just compatibility?
Wolfgang
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Wolfman
Joined: 27 Apr 2008
Posts: 27
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| Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 3:59 pm Post subject: Fixed |
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This issue turned out to be a problem with the output card. Replaced it and it's good now.
Love to see how the NEC ISS-6020 looks in comparison. The picture is actually much cleaner than the RCVDS800. Would have never imagined that the switcher makes such a difference
This is with exception of the component input at HiDef. Strange horizontal banding going on (switcher has transcoder and line doubler installed). While this is not really important as I am awaiting my RTC2200 these days, I still wouldn't mind seeing if that is correctable...
Wolfgang
Btw. here is an image..
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 6:37 am Post subject: |
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Nice! I love the way a switcher look's all filled out. 
_________________
Tech support for nothing
CRT.
HD done right!
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virusc
Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 358
Location: Massachusetts
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| Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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wolfman. I assume that you sold the RCVDS05 on Ebay. I'm the one who bought it I guess, and I have been trying to get it to work for the last few weeks. It does not seem to have V output most of the time? on any of the output cards. Can you help me diagnose it?
I also have some 800's and a 6010 with smearing aswell I tried.
BTW I was doing a search from Google and came up with this thread.
thanks,
Nate
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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The RCVDS05 can have quite a few issues when aged.
I have one here that I modified for someone. Thinking I would be doing the basic component maintenance and part changes, to at the end of the day, having to replace one of the output cards a do serious repair on the other.
When repaired it would need to be checked to confirm it'll pass the bandwidth you'll be using. And finding one of the channels to be out on any of the modules is more normal than not.
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Wolfman
Joined: 27 Apr 2008
Posts: 27
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| Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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| virusc wrote: | wolfman. I assume that you sold the RCVDS05 on Ebay. I'm the one who bought it I guess, and I have been trying to get it to work for the last few weeks. It does not seem to have V output most of the time? on any of the output cards. Can you help me diagnose it?
I also have some 800's and a 6010 with smearing aswell I tried.
BTW I was doing a search from Google and came up with this thread.
thanks,
Nate |
Yes, that's me. The switcher worked perfectly when I pulled it. As stated, the unit had a bad output module a couple years back and I ended up buying another Switcher which had multiple output cards (which I can give you for the S/H costs, if interested) which I pulled and it worked like a charm... There was nothing to experiment though.
Plugged it in, Picture showed up. This was for a Barco 808s. I did use the serial cable as well for switcher-projector communications, but that's not required...
I know the Vertical sync works great as I used several of these:HDMI->HDFury using RGBHV, Component->RTC2200 via VGA-RGBHV cable, Computer (Mac) via VGA to RGBHV cable...
I am not sure what you mean by 800's and 6010 and smearing. Can you describe that?
Have you tried either output module? What projector do you have?
Keep in mind that several input modules are tri-level sync. Your projector must be compatible with that.
Wolfman
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virusc
Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 358
Location: Massachusetts
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| Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 12:30 am Post subject: |
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Hi,
I have a NEC 6010 with probably bad Caps on output boards and some RCVDS 800's that are just low bandwidth that both cause distortion. I don't get it. I have 5 RCVDS 05's now (3 of which I bought for the cards only) and I can't get them to simply just switch RGB!! Are they really that common to fail? Most of the ones I have look brand new and all caps in the rcvds's look mint, no swelling. Wolfman, I may take you up on that offer I just need to make sure it is just not me. I don't see how I am doing anything wrong I just can't believe all 5 I have are defective.
for more information. it worked fine for about 5-6 hours. Now you have to shut it down for a day and it will switch and sync for about 5 minutes after resting for a day? These things are built so well I can't believe they are not as reliable as the older 800's.
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TbX
Joined: 06 May 2006
Posts: 94
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 1:04 am Post subject: |
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there are two transistors in the output card that is broken if it does not sync
there is a info T on this I'll check and see if I can find it
Tomas
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virusc
Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 358
Location: Massachusetts
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| Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:40 am Post subject: |
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thank you TbX.
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Wolfman
Joined: 27 Apr 2008
Posts: 27
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| Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 2:58 am Post subject: |
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| virusc wrote: | Hi,
I have a NEC 6010 with probably bad Caps on output boards and some RCVDS 800's that are just low bandwidth that both cause distortion. I don't get it. I have 5 RCVDS 05's now (3 of which I bought for the cards only) and I can't get them to simply just switch RGB!! Are they really that common to fail? Most of the ones I have look brand new and all caps in the rcvds's look mint, no swelling. Wolfman, I may take you up on that offer I just need to make sure it is just not me. I don't see how I am doing anything wrong I just can't believe all 5 I have are defective.
for more information. it worked fine for about 5-6 hours. Now you have to shut it down for a day and it will switch and sync for about 5 minutes after resting for a day? These things are built so well I can't believe they are not as reliable as the older 800's. |
You have that many switchers?
I still don't know what it's connected to. With that many switchers not doing the job for you, I suggest checking other obvious points of failure, such as the inputs or input cards on the projector. Or the cable.
What happens if you use different syncs? Tri-level, sync on green, positive/negative sync, etc. What kind of cable, what length? Any adapters (like vga to bnc)?
What projector? Barco? Port 3 or 4? Did you try component vs. RGB?
This switcher was rock solid and I ran it for 3-6 hours nearly on a daily basis; I have actually never experienced any syncing issues EVER. Actually, with any switcher or any projector. Had always Barco's (had 5-6 so far, starting with a Barco 800 Graphics). Always ran RGBHV using an insanely expensive 50' - 75' Extron cable.
That said, you can check the caps, but it's highly unlikely that this is the cause of your problems. There are 2 independent output cards as well in the switcher. Did you try both?
My suggestion is to swap cables first. If you can't, switch cable positions; they are all 75ohm Coax anyway if it's a regular RGB cable. For example, use the RED cable for H-sync and the H-sync cable for RED. In case it's a bad RCA or BNC connector you can see a change in behavior.
Wolfman
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virusc
Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 358
Location: Massachusetts
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| Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:46 am Post subject: |
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Hi I swapped the cables. I am using a NEC XG and 2 Tanberg CRT monitors for now. The projector should not matter in this case as the RCVDS does function as a standalone switcher. I have some Barcos but they are not installed. I have many cables and I have checked them. ALl of the cables have been tested and work fine when using my NEC ISS switcher. I even added a communication board to the 05 and set it to address 0 and rs232 control via laptop to remote control just incase it was looking for a barco device to funtion.
tbX, when you get a chance I would like to check what you speak of.
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virusc
Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 358
Location: Massachusetts
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| Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:52 am Post subject: |
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Wolfman, Why did you combine the sync for the HD fury? Combining the sync for the extron 404 I understand.
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 11:17 am Post subject: |
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| Wolfman wrote: |
This switcher was rock solid and I ran it for 3-6 hours nearly on a daily basis; I have actually never experienced any syncing issues EVER. Actually, with any switcher or any projector. Had always Barco's (had 5-6 so far, starting with a Barco 800 Graphics). Always ran RGBHV using an insanely expensive 50' - 75' Extron cable.
That said, you can check the caps, but it's highly unlikely that this is the cause of your problems. There are 2 independent output cards as well in the switcher. Did you try both?
Wolfman |
I'm sure that prior to the previous owners, when this switcher was in commercial operation, it was on 24/7. 24/7 is how these switchers were being used in commercial application. So the hour count would be VERY high.
Most of the problems on these switchers are on one or both of the two output modules.
It's not unusual to find any or some of the 220 uf 25vdc electrolytics swollen. There are up to 12 of them on the module depending on which version of the output modules that switcher has in it.
It's also not unusual to find a few defective transistors as well. And sync problems would also be common on these units.
The Barco switcher before this model was worse than this model with the one before that having 400 in it's model number being the absolute worst. I've never liked any of them, with this last one being the best. Streaking, smearing and sync issues has been a problem on all of them. This last one had better bandwidth performance, but finding a used one with good output cards is going to be a real challenge.
of the 5 channels on each of the boards, you could find a decrease in any of them in comparison to the others. On the two sync channels (H/V), it's likely and common that a particular projector or display device would function fine when connected to one of these switchers that has a problem output card, but when used on a number of other display devices, there would be a problem noted. That's because when there's a problem on the sync lines, the gain (amplitude) would be lower on a defective sync channel, and not all display devices would function with non standard signal levels.
When testing these units you would need to put the correct signals and levels on all five BNC's... that would need to be measured using 75 ohm termination on the output cards measuring the same gain levels that was put on the input BNC's.
That is the only way to determine if these switchers are functioning properly, especially considering some of their noted problems.
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virusc
Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 358
Location: Massachusetts
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| Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 11:37 am Post subject: |
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Thanks MP. I was thinking of the sync problem too. I plan on bench testing my units this weekend. Can I use a multimeter on the output cards to test? I plan on running a laptop xga signal to input and checking the output cards individually. I have at least 6 output cards now. Seriously, what are the chances that all are bad in some way?
actually, I used a rcvds400 on my BD600 for over 10 years with no problem and a rcvds800 with no problem other than low bandwidth. I have not gotten the RCVDS05s to ever work correctly but at first I only had 1 and not sure it ever worked. Also, is it OK to mix and match different rev's of the output and input cards?
thanks,
Nate
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TbX
Joined: 06 May 2006
Posts: 94
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 11:53 am Post subject: |
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here is some info I found
RE : Faulty BC858b/c in the sync and video outputs when the
RCVDS05 runs 24 hours a day. Replacement by a BSR16.
Some faulty BC858b/c transistors have been reported when the RCVDS05
runs 24 hours a day.
When Q18 in the horizontal sync output gets broken, the sync output is
reduced from 1.4Vpp to 0.3Vpp. Some projectors might be in trouble with this
weak sync.
If Q20 is broken, the vertical sync is missing.
Also, some problems were reported in the video output where Q201 failed.
It is recommended to replace Q201 in case of trouble with a stronger
BSR16 (P232017).
Remarks.
1) Although Q203 and Q205 did not cause any trouble up to now, we
replaced them in the new modules R7622555 and R7622565 by a
BSR16, same as Q18 and Q20.
2) As there are no schematics available you find a component layout
here after.
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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| virusc wrote: | | Thanks MP. I was thinking of the sync problem too. I plan on bench testing my units this weekend. Can I use a multimeter on the output cards to test? I plan on running a laptop xga signal to input and checking the output cards individually. |
You can try a multimeter if that's all you have to work with it. And in using that method, I would bring up a full white field that would produce 700mv on each of the three BNC's. Your multimeter will not read the actual mv reading, but you can try using it in the AC mode to compare the gain levels between the three channels. To measure for proper PP readings or measurements, you'll need a scope or other gear that would show peak to peak measurements.
| Quote: | | I have at least 6 output cards now. Seriously, what are the chances that all are bad in some way |
I'm trying to think.................it's hard to answer, but I think the exception would be the low hour cards.
| Quote: | I have not gotten the RCVDS05s to ever work correctly but at first I only had 1 and not sure it ever worked. Also, is it OK to mix and match different rev's of the output and input cards?
thanks,
Nate |
In my experience, it seems that when they're bad, there's no questions about it.
The different output cards should work fine, the only thing to be concerned with is if you're using the switcher for a double stack projector feed. That would be the only reason to make sure you match the two output cards. other than that, I know of no reason why one is different from the other. And why there's so many variations of the output cards.
Last edited by mp20748 on Fri Jul 23, 2010 12:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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| TbX wrote: | here is some info I found
RE : Faulty BC858b/c in the sync and video outputs when the
RCVDS05 runs 24 hours a day. Replacement by a BSR16.
Some faulty BC858b/c transistors have been reported when the RCVDS05
runs 24 hours a day.
When Q18 in the horizontal sync output gets broken, the sync output is
reduced from 1.4Vpp to 0.3Vpp. Some projectors might be in trouble with this
weak sync.
If Q20 is broken, the vertical sync is missing.
Also, some problems were reported in the video output where Q201 failed.
It is recommended to replace Q201 in case of trouble with a stronger
BSR16 (P232017).
Remarks.
1) Although Q203 and Q205 did not cause any trouble up to now, we
replaced them in the new modules R7622555 and R7622565 by a
BSR16, same as Q18 and Q20.
2) As there are no schematics available you find a component layout
here after. |
Yep, this sounds about right. And also confirms what I've said about the sync and RGB lines being weak and a problem on these units.
The only thing I'm not seeing is the 220uf caps swelling here..
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virusc
Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 358
Location: Massachusetts
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| Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you tbX and MP. I have listened and will try all of the above.
MP, If service is required could you give me a estimate ballpark at what I'm looking at if I can't manage it myself? I really wanted to use these as distribution switchers and load one with 3-4 output modules.
BTW. I was suspicious of the weak sync output already as it would come and go.
My plan to test is to one at a time use only 1 input and 1 output card and use my test 15"lcd monitor to verify sync freq and signal as they are more forgiving than the projectors and other monitors I have around. Using a multimeter in between as MP suggested on AC with white field. I have a sencore test generator so I think I will use that.
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