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ecrabb
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Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 2:52 pm Post subject: Weird PS3 issue... |
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Had a buddy over last night and watched No Country for Old Men on BD. My 1271 is gone, so we were watching on my backup 1272 (G70 going up within the week).
Anyway, the movie looked great (good flick), but I had a weird issue with the supplemental material (the movie is a bit of a head-scratcher, so we wanted some more info). The clip was a 480p clip - which was painfully obvious - because the PS3 completely quit upscaling on that clip. Has this happened to anybody before? It was also doing no aspect-ratio control - it was a 4:3 clip, and was not pillaroboxing, and I had no AR control. I just installed the 2.2 update last week and I'm wondering if something got screwed up in that update.
Anybody have this movie and a PS3 that could also test this issue?
SC
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kal
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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
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Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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garyfritz
Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 12088
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting. Why upscale 480p SD content but not supplemental content on BR disks??
Supplemental content often looks significantly worse even on SD disks. They obviously don't much care about PQ on that stuff.
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ecrabb
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Joined: 13 Mar 2006
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Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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It makes no sense to me that it would upscale SD DVD (480i/p), streamed or local content in MP4, etc., but not the 480p content on the BD disc. WTF? That makes no sense at all.
I've never had a problem with that on my HD DVD player, because you when you set at 1080i, you frickin' MEAN 1080i - and nothing else. Doesn't matter what the content is, the player outputs 1080i. Of course, it didn't have nearly the flexibility in AR control like the PS3 does.
That's one thing that kind of annoys me about the PS3. Why, can't I set 1080i or 1080p or whatever, and then just have it scale EVERYTHING to that res. Instead, the damn thing is all over the place. Games at one res, BD at another, supplemental material at yet another...
Never a perfect solution, I guess.
SC
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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| Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 12:13 am Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: | I've never had a problem with that on my HD DVD player, because you when you set at 1080i, you frickin' MEAN 1080i - and nothing else. Doesn't matter what the content is, the player outputs 1080i. Of course, it didn't have nearly the flexibility in AR control like the PS3 does.
That's one thing that kind of annoys me about the PS3. Why, can't I set 1080i or 1080p or whatever, and then just have it scale EVERYTHING to that res. Instead, the damn thing is all over the place. Games at one res, BD at another, supplemental material at yet another... |
Is it just the PS3 or do most other Blu-ray players do it too I wonder? I assumed that HD DVD players did the same as there's no reason for one to do it and not the other (they're functionally equivalent).
Another annoyance is that if you set the output to 1080p, it'll drop down to lower rez's (1080i I think) during the FBI and other warnings for some odd reason.
I'm really curious if this is only a PS3 thing or if other BD players do it. I'm surprised that HD DVD players don't do it. Well, I'm actually surprised that ANY players do it at all. There's no reason to NOT scale up everything to whatever you set the output to over HDMI.
Another reason to get a good external scaler I suppose. Something that takes the input and always goes to 1080i/60 or whatever.
Kal
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garyfritz
Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 12088
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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| Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:36 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, that would be a PITA if the projector was always having to re-sync on different signals as the movie was getting started.
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MikeEby
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 5237
Location: Osceola, Indiana
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| Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 3:29 am Post subject: |
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| kal wrote: | | ecrabb wrote: | Another annoyance is that if you set the output to 1080p, it'll drop down to lower rez's (1080i I think) during the FBI and other warnings for some odd reason.
I'm really curious if this is only a PS3 thing or if other BD players do it. I'm surprised that HD DVD players don't do it. Well, I'm actually surprised that ANY players do it at all. There's no reason to NOT scale up everything to whatever you set the output to over HDMI. |
Another reason to get a good external scaler I suppose. Something that takes the input and always goes to 1080i/60 or whatever.
Kal |
An HTPC doesn't do this...ha-ha I couldn't resist.  I hate it when devices change resolutions arbitrarily. It sounds like it's working the circuits in projector so hard when they change scan rates. It’s probably just me, but every time it switches I think …ok is this the time I’m going to get a spot burn.
To be fair even an HTPC does change scan rates during boot so I leave mine on all the time, I must confess I did have to reboot it once last week for an update to be applied. It’s the first time in about 3 weeks though they really are so much more stable than in the past it’s not even funny.
Mike
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AnalogRocks
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Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 4:31 am Post subject: |
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| MikeEby wrote: |
To be fair even an HTPC does change scan rates during boot so I leave mine on all the time, I must confess I did have to reboot it once last week for an update to be applied. It’s the first time in about 3 weeks though they really are so much more stable than in the past it’s not even funny.
Mike |
I don't worry about setting the PJ for the BIOS/BOOT screen's. Just the desk top resolution.
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AnalogRocks
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Joined: 08 Mar 2006
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Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 4:33 am Post subject: |
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| kal wrote: | | ecrabb wrote: | I've never had a problem with that on my HD DVD player, because you when you set at 1080i, you frickin' MEAN 1080i - and nothing else. Doesn't matter what the content is, the player outputs 1080i. Of course, it didn't have nearly the flexibility in AR control like the PS3 does.
That's one thing that kind of annoys me about the PS3. Why, can't I set 1080i or 1080p or whatever, and then just have it scale EVERYTHING to that res. Instead, the damn thing is all over the place. Games at one res, BD at another, supplemental material at yet another... |
Is it just the PS3 or do most other Blu-ray players do it too I wonder? I assumed that HD DVD players did the same as there's no reason for one to do it and not the other (they're functionally equivalent).
Another annoyance is that if you set the output to 1080p, it'll drop down to lower rez's (1080i I think) during the FBI and other warnings for some odd reason.
I'm really curious if this is only a PS3 thing or if other BD players do it. I'm surprised that HD DVD players don't do it. Well, I'm actually surprised that ANY players do it at all. There's no reason to NOT scale up everything to whatever you set the output to over HDMI.
Another reason to get a good external scaler I suppose. Something that takes the input and always goes to 1080i/60 or whatever.
Kal |
Wouldn't it still take a scaller a split second to lock the signal? I know my doubler does it and so does my quadrupler.
Is a good scaller faster?
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AnalogRocks
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Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 4:35 am Post subject: Re: Weird PS3 issue... |
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| ecrabb wrote: | Had a buddy over last night and watched No Country for Old Men on BD. ....the movie is a bit of a head-scratcher, so we wanted some more info.
SC |
Very strange film. That mexican is one of the creapiest guys I've seen on film in a while. He actualy gave me the shiver's. Which to me makes me give the film 
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ecrabb
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Joined: 13 Mar 2006
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Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 5:01 am Post subject: |
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| AnalogRocks wrote: | Wouldn't it still take a scaller a split second to lock the signal? I know my doubler does it and so does my quadrupler.
Is a good scaller faster? |
The scaler's output resolution and refresh are set and locked. It doesn't change - ever - which is a great thing. Now, the delay you're talking about - like when a device is doing video or film cadence detection - takes a split second sometimes. Therefore, it also takes the same amount of time for your doubler and quadrupler to lock - because the output signal is directly related to the input signal. With the scaler, they're separate.
I wish you could simply turn off 480p in the PS3's display settings. I'd be fine with it if I could just tell the PS3 720p or 1080i ONLY... or, 1080i ONLY. I don't see why I should ever have to look at 480p - ever. Why would I?
I think I need to get on the PlayStation support forum and start a new thread or something.
SC
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AnalogRocks
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Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 5:08 am Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: | | AnalogRocks wrote: | Wouldn't it still take a scaller a split second to lock the signal? I know my doubler does it and so does my quadrupler.
Is a good scaller faster? |
The scaler's output resolution and refresh are set and locked. It doesn't change - ever - which is a great thing. Now, the delay you're talking about - like when a device is doing video or film cadence detection - takes a split second sometimes. Therefore, it also takes the same amount of time for your doubler and quadrupler to lock - because the output signal is directly related to the input signal. With the scaler, they're separate.
I wish you could simply turn off 480p in the PS3's display settings. I'd be fine with it if I could just tell the PS3 720p or 1080i ONLY... or, 1080i ONLY. I don't see why I should ever have to look at 480p - ever. Why would I?
I think I need to get on the PlayStation support forum and start a new thread or something.
SC |
Yeah that would be ideal.
I channel surf ( fast analog way  ) through the doubler and quadrupler so the input has to resync everytime the channel changes.
I know on the DVDO I installed on a 1271 it took almost half a second per channel to lock. The Farudja in the Sony 1271 takes less time and the Runco quad take's less again.
Would a scaller not have that spolit second 'glitch'?
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MikeEby
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 5237
Location: Osceola, Indiana
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| Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 5:08 am Post subject: |
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| AnalogRocks wrote: | | MikeEby wrote: |
To be fair even an HTPC does change scan rates during boot so I leave mine on all the time, I must confess I did have to reboot it once last week for an update to be applied. It’s the first time in about 3 weeks though they really are so much more stable than in the past it’s not even funny.
Mike |
I don't worry about setting the PJ for the BIOS/BOOT screen's. Just the desk top resolution. |
Oh I don't my convergence is out by a mile during boot. I just don't like the projector changing scan rates 3 or 4 times during the boot process. It just sounds ugly, btw the Barco did the same thing it probably doesn't hurt it I just don't like the sound.
Mike
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stefuel
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 3353
Location: Green Harbor MA USA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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| kal wrote: | | ecrabb wrote: | I've never had a problem with that on my HD DVD player, because you when you set at 1080i, you frickin' MEAN 1080i - and nothing else. Doesn't matter what the content is, the player outputs 1080i. Of course, it didn't have nearly the flexibility in AR control like the PS3 does.
That's one thing that kind of annoys me about the PS3. Why, can't I set 1080i or 1080p or whatever, and then just have it scale EVERYTHING to that res. Instead, the damn thing is all over the place. Games at one res, BD at another, supplemental material at yet another... |
Is it just the PS3 or do most other Blu-ray players do it too I wonder? I assumed that HD DVD players did the same as there's no reason for one to do it and not the other (they're functionally equivalent).
Another annoyance is that if you set the output to 1080p, it'll drop down to lower rez's (1080i I think) during the FBI and other warnings for some odd reason.
I'm really curious if this is only a PS3 thing or if other BD players do it. I'm surprised that HD DVD players don't do it. Well, I'm actually surprised that ANY players do it at all. There's no reason to NOT scale up everything to whatever you set the output to over HDMI.
Another reason to get a good external scaler I suppose. Something that takes the input and always goes to 1080i/60 or whatever.
Kal |
I was just about to pull the trigger on a PS3 yesterday until I read this. I don't want my projector wigging out over resolution changes that are uncontrollable in the PS3. Now I have something else to worry about.
How is the scalling of STD def DVD's on PS3? The other thing is I still have a older AVR (Yamaha RX-V992) with no HDMI input. It does have one optical and two coaxial inputs.
Also, I think I read somewhere that the IR codes from PS2 work on PS3, is that correct? I have the optional remote for PS2 and a IR learner so I could program it into my Crestron system?
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Chip
A Barco is only a AmPro with training wheels
Card carrying member of the AVS chain gang.
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ecrabb
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| Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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Chip,
This is really only an issue with supplemental material on Blu-ray. The main feature always runs at 1080i or 1080p or whatever you have set for the output resolution. I really think this is simply a bug. I can't think of any legitimate reason it would work like it does. I've played probably two-dozen BD movies since Christmas and never noticed this issue, so Saturday night was obviously the first time I ever tried to play SD supplemental material - and I noticed the problem.
SD DVD's all play up-converted most excellently, with some of the best AR controls and cleanest video I've seen. So, no issue at all with SD DVD's or even streamed or downloaded content. This seems to be EXCLUSIVELY an issue with SD supplemental materials on BD. That's what leads me to believe it's probably a bug.
You'll have to ask somebody else about the IR control. I know there's no IR hardware in the PS3 and that you have to add a USB IR dongle, but I think I read the same as you - that the PS2 IR commands would control the PS3.
SC
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MikeEby
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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I like to joke around with Kal regarding an HTPC but the PS3 is an excellent value, the only reason I went with an HTPC is I wanted the ability to create custom resolutions and refresh rates and XG’s seem to have issues with standard 1080p timings.
Mike
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stefuel
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
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Location: Green Harbor MA USA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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Well my system is as you know completely controlled by my Crestron system. How would I control it from 30 feet away, through two walls? I just checked and my PS2 ir remote does have on/off and it does (with the PS2) what it is supposed to.
Id does require a long (2-3) second push though to shut off. I should just take my remote to BB and try it. I could really screw with peoples heads that were trying to play games 
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Chip
A Barco is only a AmPro with training wheels
Card carrying member of the AVS chain gang.
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ecrabb
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| Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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You'll need the third-party IR dongle, though Chip because there's no IR receiver built into the PS3 - it's BlueTooth only out of the box.
That's probably been one of the biggest complaints about the PS3 - no integration with system controllers or programmable remotes. I know one guy that didn't buy a PS3 specifically because of the lack of IR controllability out of the box.
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stefuel
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
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Location: Green Harbor MA USA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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I've been doing some searching and a product in the works (IR4PS3) found on Remote Central looks to be a viable solution to the problem. It is a kit that makes the blue-tooth remote a IR reciever/transmitter that you can control with any universal remote. For my purposes, you can stick a IR emmitter to it, leave it at the rack or anywhere within BT range and get full control.
Are you aware of any better solutions that would provide descrete on/off and full DVD control?
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Chip
A Barco is only a AmPro with training wheels
Card carrying member of the AVS chain gang.
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stefuel
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:05 am Post subject: |
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Back to the original posters problem. I noticed that my pj is clicking when I switch away from a dvd to the players osd. I noticed in setup that many resolutions were checked as being valid for my display. If I uncheck everything but 1080P, won't it be forced to output everything at 1080P and avoid temporary sync loss?
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Chip
A Barco is only a AmPro with training wheels
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