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Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 4899
Location: Flower Mound, TX
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| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 10:32 pm Post subject: |
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| J.man1503 wrote: | | Quote: | For what I would consider you optimal CRT set up, I'd say:
1) Get Lumagen HDP.
2) Get Great 8" LC
3) Get an HDMI/DVI input of some type.
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How would a HD Leeza compare with the a lumagen for this type of setup? I know that the Leeza has 1080i to 1080p deinterlacing and good scaling. Is there a feature on the Lumagen that makes it so highly recommended? |
I don't know the Leeza as well, but I REALLY know the Lumagen. 
I sort of knew the DVDO stuff, but not as up on the VP series anymore. I like the Lumagen's because they are cheaper than the Leeza and give you as good of processing. I like the Lumgen's independent output configurations (which are great for CRTs in CIA or CIH set ups) and the 11 point gamma manipularion. The Leeza may do this to, not sure, but they cost more, and I don't know anything they do better. But, if you have one, strike the Lumagen from the list! 
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Dave
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station....
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Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 4899
Location: Flower Mound, TX
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| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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| J.man1503 wrote: | | Quote: |
So, I need to know what you mean by "without black bars". If that means CIH, then I would tend to steer away from CRT, but you are a special case (I'll get to that). If that means "don't project the black bars and it is OK to mask the unused portions", then a CRT could work. |
I mean that I would be able to project (and I would cover it with masking as I currently do) or not project the black bars. I just do not want to see the black bars on my white screen. That is what I mean. Thank you for the post. Keep asking more questions! |
Almost any CRT out of the box can not project them. That is not a problem.
I got no more questions! I've told you everything you need to know! 
You didn't answer the where are you located question.
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Dave
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station....
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J.man1503
Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 19
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| Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 12:01 am Post subject: |
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What is the purpose and how does one go about installing a color filter on a CRT projector?
HOw noticable are the LC projectors compared to the non-LC?
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Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 4899
Location: Flower Mound, TX
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| Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 12:12 am Post subject: |
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| J.man1503 wrote: | | What is the purpose and how does one go about installing a color filter on a CRT projector? |
You don't. There are some hacks AC machine that don't have it, but most LC projectors do. For the LCs that don't, you have to change the C element (you don't want to do that).
The three PJs that I think meet your budget and quality requirements (the ones I recommended) all have color filtered elements. so, no problem.
| J.man1503 wrote: | | HOw noticable are the LC projectors compared to the non-LC? |
Fairly noticeable. Air coupled machines scatter light more. So, although not noticeable on most content, it is on some. for instance, a bright point on a dark background will have a halo if you don't have LC. The biggest difference though is ANSI CR. An LC machine has almost double the ANSI CR of an AC machine.
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Dave
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Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 4899
Location: Flower Mound, TX
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| Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 12:13 am Post subject: |
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One thing I should have mentioned about black bars. CRTs are not digitals. You can go ahead and project the black bars--you won't see them, because they are actually BLACK--imagine that!
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Dave
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station....
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J.man1503
Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 19
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J.man1503
Joined: 28 Oct 2007
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MikeEby
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 5237
Location: Osceola, Indiana
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| Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 1:59 am Post subject: |
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It has some very noticeable 4:3 wear on the tubes and I believe the tubes sell for around $1700 each.
Mike
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Doing HD since the last century!
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MikeEby
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 5237
Location: Osceola, Indiana
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| Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 2:07 am Post subject: |
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I was watching that one too, the tubes look very decent, I would not be surpised to see the NEC go for $800-$1000 before the auction closes. You have to also keep in mind the shipping could also add $150-$300 to the cost. BTW I have the same model and the projector listed and I love it. Ebay projectors can be a mixed bag, you might get lucky and get a bargain or you could get scammed. If you want some type support after the sale consider one from Curt.
Mike
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 4:49 am Post subject: |
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| MikeEby wrote: | Ebay projectors can be a mixed bag, you might get lucky and get a bargain or you could get scammed. If you want some type support after the sale consider one from Curt.
Mike |
Yep, if you got one of those it would most likly be "AS IS WHERE IS" no warranty. Where as Curt services what he sell's.
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CRT.
HD done right!
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Dave Lister
Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 436
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
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perisoft
Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 2920
Location: Ithaca, NY
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| Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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| MikeEby wrote: |
I was watching that one too, the tubes look very decent, I would not be surpised to see the NEC go for $800-$1000 before the auction closes. You have to also keep in mind the shipping could also add $150-$300 to the cost. BTW I have the same model and the projector listed and I love it. Ebay projectors can be a mixed bag, you might get lucky and get a bargain or you could get scammed. If you want some type support after the sale consider one from Curt.
Mike |
A minty XG135LC from some guy's HT (he had lots of pics and an hour count) just went for $500 a few days ago.
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Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 4899
Location: Flower Mound, TX
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| Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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| J.man1503 wrote: | Thanks for the reply.
I have been looking at the three projectors suggested to me, Cine 8, G70, and XG LC and I have a Nec XG LC on ebay, but cannot figure out why it is so cheap. |
Don't buy a regular Cine 8. It does not have LC lenses. Gotta be a Cine 8 Onyx/Zenith Pro 1200X (gee wonder who has one of those for sale. )
They are rare and hard to find, but a Barco 1208s/2 (not 1208/2 or 12082) is pretty good too, but air coupled is the downside.
Two words of warning: imagine the loudest projector you can possibly imagine. Now double that--that is how loud an NEC XG is. They are over 40 db of fan noise. Unless you are going to build a hushbox like Kal's they are not an option.
I also would not buy an NEC XG unless I could inspect it or trusted the seller. The manual said to mount it too far and run it in "fry the tubes" mode. I've seen Barcos with 8000 hours and no sign of tube wear, whereas I've seen XGs with as little as 2000 hours and bad wear on the green. Be careful with the XG shopping.
A G70 is you most likely bet. Some issues, but pretty good for reliability. I think Curt is less confortable with them for easy/cheap repairs than the others, but they are pretty reliable and fairly readily available.
Where are you located, you might be lucky to be in a hub of CRT activity.
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Dave
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station....
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J.man1503
Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 19
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| Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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located in Louisville, KY
I was also leaning towards the G70 since it seems that many people talk about it on different forums.
This is a quote from Dave
| Quote: | | But, 1080i is not an option for you. You could run 1080i and get rid of the black bars but it will have two problems from your seating distance, scan lines would be too visible. You would run 2.35:1 content at its active area (i.e. 1920x817@48 or 72 progressive). No black bars, and you'll save bandwidth that will increase the sharpness, and have no scan line visibility. |
Now how would this setup work with the G70 since it is not able to fully resolve 1080p? Or since the projector is only projecting 1920x817 it would not be a problem since, "you'll save bandwidth that will increase the sharpness, and have no scan line visibility". I know this is a simple question, but I am really trying to grasp the resolving power of CRT projectors
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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| Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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| scoobydoo wrote: | I still considered myself a newbie to all of this and when I bought my first PJ a barco 800 from Curt he told me "send a few extra $$ and get a better machine". After a year or so, I ended up upgrading, should have listened to him in the first place.
So hears my words of wisdom, once you go black, you'll never go back. .....I mean...figure out what your budget it, and get the best PJ (CRT pj that is) you can find for the price. IF you are lucky enough, get one that curt has looked over and have done the mods to already.
you won't regret it. |
I have to second the motion of getting the best PJ you can afford. They're big, they're heavy, and they're a lot of work to set up if you demand perfection. Once you have that thing up on the ceiling and tweaked to perfection, you won't want to take it down and do it all over again if a better deal comes along. Get the good one right from the start.
Kal
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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| Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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| MikeEby wrote: |
I was watching that one too, the tubes look very decent, I would not be surpised to see the NEC go for $800-$1000 before the auction closes. You have to also keep in mind the shipping could also add $150-$300 to the cost. BTW I have the same model and the projector listed and I love it. Ebay projectors can be a mixed bag, you might get lucky and get a bargain or you could get scammed. If you want some type support after the sale consider one from Curt.
Mike |
I was going to say... how can you know it's cheap? The auction isn't finished yet. These things tend to bid up like crazy at the end. While the tubes look good, the seller also knows nothing about it and prefers local pickup to shipping. I would definitely not want someone who doesn't know a thing about these things to try and crate it up. That's just asking for trouble.
If there's one projector I would never buy sight unseen it's an XG. There are just too many pots and controls inside that once touched, the projector is essentially screwed in terms of colour/greyscale - especially the controls called the white balance pots. These are not the usual gain/cutoff controls that people adjust to get proper greyscale, but instead are the controls that the factory sets so that the gains/cutoffs can actually be properly set. In north america I only know one or two people who can bring such a projector back from the dead.
The problem is that when you open the lid those pots are just staring you in the face begging to be turned.
I had an XG for a while that had this problem unfortunately and have a 'scope and the service manual but it's so poorly written (in Japanese/English) that I gave up and returned the projector to the seller out of frustration.
IF you buy an XG buy from a reputable seller who will stand behind the unit. You'll also need to hushbox an XG. Very capable projector but very loud. For the 6 weeks when I worked on mine on the floor, I wore earplugs! The noise was just so annoying.
Kal
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My basement/HT/bar/brewery build 2.0
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Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 4899
Location: Flower Mound, TX
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| Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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| J.man1503 wrote: | | located in Louisville, KY |
Gary M in your neck of the woods has an NEC XG LC that he runs CIH and it should be well set up. Contact him on AVS, I'm sure he'd show it to you.
I was also leaning towards the G70 since it seems that many people talk about it on different forums.
| J.man1503 wrote: | | Now how would this setup work with the G70 since it is not able to fully resolve 1080p? Or since the projector is only projecting 1920x817 it would not be a problem since, "you'll save bandwidth that will increase the sharpness, and have no scan line visibility". I know this is a simple question, but I am really trying to grasp the resolving power of CRT projectors |
Yep, that is part of it. You are not going to send it 1080p, you are going to send it 1920x817 or something less. that saves bandwidth, that helps. With infinite bandwidth, things are super duper sharp. The less bandwidth overhead, the less sharp. Having 2-3 times overhead makes things pretty sharp. You need about 58 MHz for this res at 72. My PJ for instance has 120. so, over double which means not too bad.
Secondly, "fully resolve" means display a one on/one off pattern. That is pretty much the hardest thing for a CRT to do. How many of 100 IRE/0 IRE/100 IRE/0 IRE... patterns do you see in movies?
So, even though not "fully resolved", you won't notice it in any movie.
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Dave
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station....
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Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 4899
Location: Flower Mound, TX
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| Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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BTW, J.man1503, I sent you a PM you might want to check out.
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Dave
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