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Heywood Jablome
Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 1548
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| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 6:24 pm Post subject: Anyone with a Sencore in Massachusetts? |
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My other thread is getting long in the tooth so I figured I'd ask this here...
My new (to me) 9501LC had the green emission spontaneously get quite dim... All sorts of debuggery has been invested, measuring voltages, swapping connectors and even entire tubes, etc, and I'm still facing very dim green output.
Before any asks, the P14 is rock solid at 6.35 and its' got a -P02 (i.e. P14 resolved) LVPS.
Is there anyone in MA or even in New England that can give this tube a little Sencore lovin? I'd like to avoid shipping just for the sake of a test or cathode cleaning.
_________________
"Those countries which lag behind in industry, in the application of mechanics and technical chemistry, in the careful selection and utilization of natural products, where the respect for such activities does not permeate all classes of society, will unfailingly decline in prosperity. They will sink faster when neighbor states, with an energetic exchange between science and industry, go forward with renewed vitality."
-- Baron Alexander von Humboldt: 1769-1859
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Heywood Jablome
Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 1548
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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Bumpski...
Called several TV repair places. One response: "Had one, threw it out a few years ago."
Another: "Got a B&K... have'nt touched it in a few years."
And a place that specializes in big screen TVs: "We only service complete sets."
_________________
"Those countries which lag behind in industry, in the application of mechanics and technical chemistry, in the careful selection and utilization of natural products, where the respect for such activities does not permeate all classes of society, will unfailingly decline in prosperity. They will sink faster when neighbor states, with an energetic exchange between science and industry, go forward with renewed vitality."
-- Baron Alexander von Humboldt: 1769-1859
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Chuchuf
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 548
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 3:26 am Post subject: |
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If the green emission is low, and you have tried swapping the neck boards (problem stays w/ green?) as well as tubes (problem stays w/ green?) then you can pretty much conclude the problem is the tube.
Terry
Last edited by Chuchuf on Tue Apr 08, 2008 2:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Heywood Jablome
Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 1548
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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That's my fear...
Every iteration of debugging has been spent... The problem started with a re-init or was, at least, highly coincidental. No raising of green drive and G2, nor lowering of Red and Blue could kill this red push I'm seeing.
Iterations included swapping neckboards, G2s, and mini-RCAs, then the entire tubes (As we speak Green is occupying the place of Red, and vice versa.)
Question if anybody knows: There are a couple Sencore CR70s (not 7000s) on the 'bay right now. I'm willing to take a chance on one if this population thinks it'll be a good add to my tool suite (i.e. can it handle a P19 and other projection tube types?)
_________________
"Those countries which lag behind in industry, in the application of mechanics and technical chemistry, in the careful selection and utilization of natural products, where the respect for such activities does not permeate all classes of society, will unfailingly decline in prosperity. They will sink faster when neighbor states, with an energetic exchange between science and industry, go forward with renewed vitality."
-- Baron Alexander von Humboldt: 1769-1859
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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The problem with buying a Sencore or any other tube tester/rejuvinator is that they are good for testing the tube it self for various problems and verify the tube is the culprit, but when it comes to rejuvination, its a crap shoot. There is no guarantee it will repair your problem plus its my understanding that it can further reduce the life of the tube. I have seen them work great and put full brightness back into a dim tube and I have seen them make no difference at all. Its just a gamble. Good luck.
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Heywood Jablome
Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 1548
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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Oh... I know. Thats' why I like the Sencores... they have very conservative rejuvenation settings... the 7000 has at least five current-limited settings, I'm pretty sure the 70 does also.
_________________
"Those countries which lag behind in industry, in the application of mechanics and technical chemistry, in the careful selection and utilization of natural products, where the respect for such activities does not permeate all classes of society, will unfailingly decline in prosperity. They will sink faster when neighbor states, with an energetic exchange between science and industry, go forward with renewed vitality."
-- Baron Alexander von Humboldt: 1769-1859
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Chuchuf
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 548
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Heywood Jablome wrote: | That's my fear...
Every iteration of debugging has been spent... The problem started with a re-init or was, at least, highly coincidental. No raising of green drive and G2, nor lowering of Red and Blue could kill this red push I'm seeing.
Iterations included swapping neckboards, G2s, and mini-RCAs, then the entire tubes (As we speak Green is occupying the place of Red, and vice versa.)
Question if anybody knows: There are a couple Sencore CR70s (not 7000s) on the 'bay right now. I'm willing to take a chance on one if this population thinks it'll be a good add to my tool suite (i.e. can it handle a P19 and other projection tube types?) |
When you go into the internal test patterns, bring up the step pattern and raise and lower G2, can you get it to show a difference between 0 and the next step?? What is the G2 set at when this happens? Is there more G2 available after that which will allow you to push so that the entire raster is lit up?
Terry
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Heywood Jablome
Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 1548
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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I did not try G2 with the step pattern, but was able to bring up the raster to an unacceptable level with G2... I believe it was in the neighborhood of 90, but will have to verify tonight.
_________________
"Those countries which lag behind in industry, in the application of mechanics and technical chemistry, in the careful selection and utilization of natural products, where the respect for such activities does not permeate all classes of society, will unfailingly decline in prosperity. They will sink faster when neighbor states, with an energetic exchange between science and industry, go forward with renewed vitality."
-- Baron Alexander von Humboldt: 1769-1859
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Heywood Jablome
Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 1548
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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Anybody have experience with the B&K 467? There's one on the bay right now with an attractive BIN price, and a goodly collection of sockets.
_________________
"Those countries which lag behind in industry, in the application of mechanics and technical chemistry, in the careful selection and utilization of natural products, where the respect for such activities does not permeate all classes of society, will unfailingly decline in prosperity. They will sink faster when neighbor states, with an energetic exchange between science and industry, go forward with renewed vitality."
-- Baron Alexander von Humboldt: 1769-1859
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stefuel
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 3353
Location: Green Harbor MA USA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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The projector was in the nose up configuration while in the retro cabinet. As such, any contamination that might be in the tube would have settled into the neck/gun area. Pull the tube again, place it on the table nose down and using the plastic handle of a screwdriver, tap repeatably on the tube neck in the area just below the tube socket. This may loosen any contamination stuck to the gun. Good judgment taps, not driving a spike home 
_________________
Chip
A Barco is only a AmPro with training wheels
Card carrying member of the AVS chain gang.
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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I'm suprised that nobody with a tube restorer has poped in here yet to help answer your questions or nobody here uses one. I'll respond with the best of my knowledge. About 10 years ago when I was doing repair full time a few of us with repair shops in different citys got together and decided to work together with equipment and manuals because costs were getting so high. So one guy would buy one tester another guy a different one and we would share manuals. This way we all had access to the newest equipment at a fraction of the cost.
Now with that said the on of the other guy's had the Sencore tester/restorer and if any of us needed a tube tested or restored, we would take it to his shop. So my experience with this was mostly watching, commenting and BS ing. We also did many RPTV tubes and occasionally a front projection.
Now from what I know, even if you have the right connector, or have properly connected the universal one, there are specific setting for the restorer depending on EXACTLY which tude you are atempting to restore. The tester comes with a book with charts and your tube MUST be listed to know the specific settings for that tube. This means that even if 2 different tubes use the same pinouts the settings my be totally different.
Now, the testers you are looking at were out before the P19 was even invented (I believe), so even if you could hook it up properly by pinout, you have no idea what settings and the older tester may not even have the settings required to restore you tube and may permanently damage it if attempted.
My opinion is you would need a newer Sencore and have to verify the chart has your P19 listed.
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Heywood Jablome
Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 1548
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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| macgyver655 wrote: | I'm suprised that nobody with a tube restorer has poped in here yet to help answer your questions or nobody here uses one. I'll respond with the best of my knowledge. About 10 years ago when I was doing repair full time a few of us with repair shops in different citys got together and decided to work together with equipment and manuals because costs were getting so high. So one guy would buy one tester another guy a different one and we would share manuals. This way we all had access to the newest equipment at a fraction of the cost.
Now with that said the on of the other guy's had the Sencore tester/restorer and if any of us needed a tube tested or restored, we would take it to his shop. So my experience with this was mostly watching, commenting and BS ing. We also did many RPTV tubes and occasionally a front projection.
Now from what I know, even if you have the right connector, or have properly connected the universal one, there are specific setting for the restorer depending on EXACTLY which tude you are atempting to restore. The tester comes with a book with charts and your tube MUST be listed to know the specific settings for that tube. This means that even if 2 different tubes use the same pinouts the settings my be totally different.
Now, the testers you are looking at were out before the P19 was even invented (I believe), so even if you could hook it up properly by pinout, you have no idea what settings and the older tester may not even have the settings required to restore you tube and may permanently damage it if attempted.
My opinion is you would need a newer Sencore and have to verify the chart has your P19 listed. |
Good to know... Some of my assumptions have been confirmed by this and other research, and I'm awaiting response from B&K on the 467.
At this point I'm facing a new tube one way or the other, but I definitely intend to walk prior to flying. (I'm super-conservative and cautious when it comes to my own money!)
_________________
"Those countries which lag behind in industry, in the application of mechanics and technical chemistry, in the careful selection and utilization of natural products, where the respect for such activities does not permeate all classes of society, will unfailingly decline in prosperity. They will sink faster when neighbor states, with an energetic exchange between science and industry, go forward with renewed vitality."
-- Baron Alexander von Humboldt: 1769-1859
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Heywood Jablome
Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 1548
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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| stefuel wrote: | | The projector was in the nose up configuration while in the retro cabinet. As such, any contamination that might be in the tube would have settled into the neck/gun area. Pull the tube again, place it on the table nose down and using the plastic handle of a screwdriver, tap repeatably on the tube neck in the area just below the tube socket. This may loosen any contamination stuck to the gun. Good judgment taps, not driving a spike home |
No problem... I'll practice on the Red you lent me! 
_________________
"Those countries which lag behind in industry, in the application of mechanics and technical chemistry, in the careful selection and utilization of natural products, where the respect for such activities does not permeate all classes of society, will unfailingly decline in prosperity. They will sink faster when neighbor states, with an energetic exchange between science and industry, go forward with renewed vitality."
-- Baron Alexander von Humboldt: 1769-1859
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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Chip makes a good point about the projector being nose up all those years so any and all contamination would of fell to the back of the neck. My guess would be that maybe when you did the reintialization there was a short spike in current to the tube causeing the contamination to fly around in there and some landing in the wrong places. The method Chip describes does work as I have used it many times and if the debris is already loose then it shouldn't take much to tap it free. Its worth a try.
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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I been thinking(OH,OH) about this issue of tapping on the tube to try to dislodge any debris and the fear of breaking the neck. Its not the contact with the tube but the vibration it creates to dislodge the particles. Therefore if you could place the tube on something that vibrates (don't ask your wife for tools) then it might work just as good if not better. What comes to mind is I have a direct drive compressor that really vibrates when running and just resting the tube on it while also holding it would vibrate anything loose. If you have something else that vibrates you might want to give that a try instead of tapping on the neck.
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Heywood Jablome
Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 1548
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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I have a 14,000 lb cast iron and granite multi-axis programmable vibration table not 50 feet from me... (google "Unholtz-Dickie")
I can certainly give a tube a wiggle!
_________________
"Those countries which lag behind in industry, in the application of mechanics and technical chemistry, in the careful selection and utilization of natural products, where the respect for such activities does not permeate all classes of society, will unfailingly decline in prosperity. They will sink faster when neighbor states, with an energetic exchange between science and industry, go forward with renewed vitality."
-- Baron Alexander von Humboldt: 1769-1859
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stefuel
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 3353
Location: Green Harbor MA USA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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I was actually going to suggest the vibrator thing but that would be leaving to much open for debate. Not to mention that JT's single and where would he come up with such a device (other than industrial) 
Actually tapping on the neck is the recommended cheap fix if you do a search.
_________________
Chip
A Barco is only a AmPro with training wheels
Card carrying member of the AVS chain gang.
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stefuel
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 3353
Location: Green Harbor MA USA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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Ya want me to come over tonight and give it a rap. That way, if it breaks, you can blame it on the cull
_________________
Chip
A Barco is only a AmPro with training wheels
Card carrying member of the AVS chain gang.
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Tom.W
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 4:39 am Post subject: |
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| Heywood Jablome wrote: | I have Unholtz-Dickie)
I can certainly give a tube a wiggle! |
TMI 
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