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HT Q&A: What's the best Blu-ray player?
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WTS



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PostLink    Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote


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Hi Dan,

How much for a drive assembly?

Walter

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kal
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PostLink    Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WTS wrote:
I don't see anything in the manuals to reset it back to the original FW or like new starting point. If you know of anything let me know and I'll try it before I have to send it back.

Hmm, maybe it isn't possible then (could've sworn it was but I may be wrong). All I found was this example which you may have already tried:

http://www.tech-recipes.com/rx/2265/ps3_how_to_factory_hard_reset

Kal

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WanMan



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PostLink    Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why would the original factory-shipped firmware be on the hard drive? The whole idea behind making the hard drive removable was to allow cowsumers to replace their drives at will and still get the PS3 up and running again. I wouldn't trust any customer service monkey on getting correct answers to you, Walter.
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WTS



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PostLink    Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If he's a CS then yes, if he's a tech then maybe. In the past I've dealt with the local Sony service center on other Sony products and they were very helpful, don't know if they have anything to do with the PS3s though.
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WTS



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PostLink    Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm, I just tried the hard rest but if you hold down the PS for one beep it turns on, 2 beeps it resets to 480i and 3 beeps it turns off.
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WTS



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PostLink    Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 2:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I just got my PS3 back from warranty service, it says they replaced the BR drive. Funny thing is when I sent it to them it had version 2.43 on it and now it has version 2.35, so they set it back, odd, I wonder why they'd do that and not just update it to 2.50. I updated it to 2.5 and it still seems to function okay.

Hey Kal, where was that audio level setting I told you about a while back. I can't seem to find what menu it was in.

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kal
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PostLink    Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 3:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't remember. I don't use it.

Kal

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WTS



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PostLink    Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found it, you have to be playing a disc, then you hit display then the speaker icon.

One other thing I discovered when you hit display, it brings up a whole set of icons and there is one called AV ( I think it was) when you go into that one it has all the NR settings. I thought when you set the NR to off in the BR settings(called video settings now with version 2.50) that it turned all the NR off but not so. Under the AV icon there are 3 NR type settings each with a OFF/1/2/3 selection, each of these were set at 3 in mine, now they're all OFF. I should say that these are only for SD DVDs, these settings don't show up when you have a BR disc playing.


Here are the NR options;

Frame Noise Reduction - Set to reduce fine noise.
Block Noise Reduction - Set to reduce mosaic-like block noise displayed on the screen.
Mosquito Noise Reduction - Set to reduce mosquito noise that appears on the edges of visual images.

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kal
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PostLink    Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a good deal:

Save $100 When You Buy a Blu-ray Player and Four Warner Blu-ray Discs Together

PS3 is included in that list of Blu-ray players.

Kal

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kal
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PostLink    Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can also get a free PS3 Blu-ray remote:

Buy Three Warner Blu-ray Discs, Get a PS3 Blu-ray Remote Free

Kal

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Person99



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PostLink    Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kal wrote:

Audio/Video quality: The picture/sound quality is the same between the various Blu-ray players when outputting audio and video in the digital domain using HDMI and Toslink/SPDIF. Don't be fooled by marketing: Bits are bits! It makes no difference!


After comparing a couple HD DVD players and several BD players side by side using HDMI with the exact same video chain, I have to say this is not true. Output quality does vary. And IMO, the PS3 is not the best.

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PostLink    Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Person99 wrote:
Kal wrote:

Audio/Video quality: The picture/sound quality is the same between the various Blu-ray players when outputting audio and video in the digital domain using HDMI and Toslink/SPDIF. Don't be fooled by marketing: Bits are bits! It makes no difference!


After comparing a couple HD DVD players and several BD players side by side using HDMI with the exact same video chain, I have to say this is not true. Output quality does vary. And IMO, the PS3 is not the best.


So what exactly do some players do (or not do)? Is this better 3/2 pulldown from some than others?

Many of us have a hard time believing how two players, both set to output the native 1080p/24 signal on the disc via HDMI could possibly look any different.

If they add image processing or have to any sort of conversion or manipulation then I could see it looking different (though something like 3:2 pulldown is so well understood that I doubt even the cheap models get it wrong).

Kal

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Person99



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PostLink    Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
Person99 wrote:
Kal wrote:

Audio/Video quality: The picture/sound quality is the same between the various Blu-ray players when outputting audio and video in the digital domain using HDMI and Toslink/SPDIF. Don't be fooled by marketing: Bits are bits! It makes no difference!


After comparing a couple HD DVD players and several BD players side by side using HDMI with the exact same video chain, I have to say this is not true. Output quality does vary. And IMO, the PS3 is not the best.


So what exactly do some players do (or not do)? Is this better 3/2 pulldown from some than others?

Many of us have a hard time believing how two players, both set to output the native 1080p/24 signal on the disc via HDMI could possibly look any different.

If they add image processing or have to any sort of conversion or manipulation then I could see it looking different (though something like 3:2 pulldown is so well understood that I doubt even the cheap models get it wrong).

Kal


Players do not send the bits off the disc. If they did, you would be correct. But, they actually have to do the decoding of the content (display's don't understand any of the codecs). They can also apply any filtering or "enhancements" that they want in the process.

Bear in mind that none of the codecs is perfect, so there is more than 1 way to reconstitute the image.

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ecrabb
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PostLink    Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 2:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Person99 wrote:
After comparing a couple HD DVD players and several BD players side by side using HDMI with the exact same video chain, I have to say this is not true. Output quality does vary. And IMO, the PS3 is not the best.

Dave... First, let me start by saying even if it sounds that way, I'm not questioning what you're saying. I would like some more info, however.

I can see how BD players - just like DVD players - can look different. With DVD players, of course, not only did you have different codecs (chipsets), but different D/A converters on top of that. Even though we don't have the issue of D/A with HDMI, we still have the codec and other potential processing in the chain.

Still, I'm having a hard time believing that there's a significant enough difference between the players for the differences to not only be easily discernible, but to be able to say one is better than the other.

Now, I haven't looked at them side-by-side, so I can't dispute what you're saying. But, I have two questions:

1) "Several BD players side-by-side"... I assume you had multiple copies of the same source material in all the BD players. 3 copies of Cars, 3 copies of Ratatouille, etc. all playing roughly simultaneously so you could switch back and forth to evaluate.

2) Could you characterize the differences? What made the PS3 "not the best"? Color? Sharpness? Noise? Something else?

Thanks, Dave!

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PostLink    Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 2:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I'm curious too. I'll pick up another BD player if it makes a difference.

Kal

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ecrabb
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PostLink    Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
I'll pick up another BD player if it makes a difference.

Me, too... I just wish the rest of them weren't so damn slow! I'm so spoiled with the PS3 - it's so snappy. My buddy picked up one of those new Pioneer Elite BD players (not sure which model)... I had gadget envy for about 5 minutes when he told me that it still took a bunch of time to load a disc. WTF? Why can't they FIX that problem? Why does a STB have to be so damn slow?

I like the media handling and some of the other features in the PS3, but I'd certainly keep the PS3 and add another player if there was something about the picture that was noticeably superior.

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overclkr



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PostLink    Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ecrabb wrote:
kal wrote:
I'll pick up another BD player if it makes a difference.

Me, too... I just wish the rest of them weren't so damn slow! I'm so spoiled with the PS3 - it's so snappy. My buddy picked up one of those new Pioneer Elite BD players (not sure which model)... I had gadget envy for about 5 minutes when he told me that it still took a bunch of time to load a disc. WTF? Why can't they FIX that problem? Why does a STB have to be so damn slow?

I like the media handling and some of the other features in the PS3, but I'd certainly keep the PS3 and add another player if there was something about the picture that was noticeably superior.

SC


I have the original 60gb model and I've never looked back. Fast as hell, looks AWESOME (CALIBRATED PROPERLY as the PS3 CRUSHES BLACKS), and just plain flat out is the most compatible and fastest BD player on the market. Smile

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Person99



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PostLink    Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ecrabb wrote:
Person99 wrote:
After comparing a couple HD DVD players and several BD players side by side using HDMI with the exact same video chain, I have to say this is not true. Output quality does vary. And IMO, the PS3 is not the best.

Dave... First, let me start by saying even if it sounds that way, I'm not questioning what you're saying. I would like some more info, however.


I had a PS3 in my theater with my LG. I did not do anything as sophisticated as a single blind or double blind test, but the LG was considered by all to be better.

Athanasios says the same thing in another thread (http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13437):
Nashou66 wrote:
Like Dave I had my freind PS3 here and we both agreed the LG looked much better


It is really that hard for you to believe that a game console is NOT the best BD player?

ecrabb wrote:
Now, I haven't looked at them side-by-side, so I can't dispute what you're saying. But, I have two questions:

1) "Several BD players side-by-side"... I assume you had multiple copies of the same source material in all the BD players. 3 copies of Cars, 3 copies of Ratatouille, etc. all playing roughly simultaneously so you could switch back and forth to evaluate.

2) Could you characterize the differences? What made the PS3 "not the best"? Color? Sharpness? Noise? Something else?

Thanks, Dave!

SC


As I said, this was for fun and my curiosity--not a scientific test nor am I trying to convince the hords of PS3 fan-boys to throw them out, just stating what I and other saw. I already had the LG which does 480i HDMI to my Lumagen and which I preferred because I want a non-IR game machine in there, plus the LG made sure I did not have to keep the HD-A1 in the system for the few HD DVDs that I own. So I just wanted to see if I was "losing" anything by not having the PS3.

Bit of background: As all know I DID NOT want BD to win, so I would not buy or support BD in any way (I was doing my part on behalf of all consumers--oh well). So, I had an HD-A1 (also did my part as an early adopter). When BD won, I got the LG BH100. I set it up next to the HD-A1. The disc that really blew away my conceptions of "all HD players look the same" was the HD DVD of Tranformers. There was less macro blocking, colors, and that "just better looking" quality when the disc was played on the LG. So, I tried a bunch of HD DVDs, some looked about the same, some looked better on the LG. None looked better on the HD-A1.

So, I was curious just to see if my choice of LG as BD player had me loosing quality for years forward as I rented BDs and bought a few. So, I had the PS3 over with more of a "gosh I hope the LG looks as good" approach. I think we only had two copies of 1 disc, so most was the very unscientic non-blind testing with disc swapping. To my surprise, the LG looked better, though the difference was not as dramatic as I had seen between the LG and HD-A1--they were present in some discs.

So, in the end, I was happy that I lost nothing but 2.0 profile (that I don't care about) and some loading speed in exchange for a real HT device (IR capable natively) and slightly better playback.

Frankly, I got what I wanted from the "shootout". My money was well spent. Smile

If you are curious, try to set up a real shootout. Frankly, I probably won't because there is little chance I will ever buy a PS3. I might do shootouts in the future against other BD players that I might buy to see if it is upgrade time, but I have little motivation to do a "real" shootout with a PS3 because you would literally have to give it to me for me to consider using it. So, does that make my opinion biased? sure. But, 2 others with no bias thought the LG looked better as did Athanasios and his PS3 owning friend.

Could it be something else in the video chain or whatever--sure. But I did calibrate them both before compaing (as I had with HD DVDs).

So, take it for what it is worth. I just think it is a dubious claim to say BD playback from all devices is the same! That was what I was objecting to. Further, with falling BD player prices, the PS3 becomes a less and less attractive option unless it can offer better playback. That is my only point.

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ecrabb
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PostLink    Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Person99 wrote:
It is really that hard for you to believe that a game console is NOT the best BD player?

*I* didn't say I couldn't believe the PS3 wasn't the best BD player. I do, however find it a little hard to believe that a $200-300 Korean "real HT device" (whatever THAT is) BD player is SO noticeably superior to a $500 "game console" (AKA powerful computer), that everybody in a room would all find it better. That surprises me, and I find it hard to believe you find it hard to believe that I'd find that hard to believe. Wink

Seriously, though... You still haven't really articulated the difference between the two. What - specifically - was it about the image on the LG that looked better than the PS3? Noise? Macroblocking? Detail? Motion? Color?

Person99 wrote:
As all know I DID NOT want BD to win, so I would not buy or support BD in any way (I was doing my part on behalf of all consumers--oh well). So, I had an HD-A1 (also did my part as an early adopter). When BD won, I got the LG BH100. I set it up next to the HD-A1. The disc that really blew away my conceptions of "all HD players look the same" was the HD DVD of Tranformers. There was less macro blocking, colors, and that "just better looking" quality when the disc was played on the LG. So, I tried a bunch of HD DVDs, some looked about the same, some looked better on the LG. None looked better on the HD-A1.

I was an early HD DVD adopter, too. I wanted HD DVD to win, too. Since then, I've come to really like BD, though. I think the physical design of the BD format (the non-scratch layer) is actually far superior to HD DVD. I had lots and lots of HD DVD's from Netflix that skipped or paused or broke up and were obviously very beat up. OTOH, all the BD's that have come from Netflix look almost like new, even though they've obviously been around, too. Out of dozens of movies, I've never had a single skip or pause. Coincidence? No, it's that great coating!

Put more simply, in the year that I've been watching BD, my experience has been FAR SUPERIOR to what I had with HD DVD. Far superior. Consumer's best interests represented in every way notwithstanding, of course. Still, the PS3 was part of that superior experience - for me, at least.

Person99 wrote:
So, in the end, I was happy that I lost nothing but 2.0 profile (that I don't care about) and some loading speed in exchange for a real HT device (IR capable natively) and slightly better playback.

The IR situation is a non-issue. You can easily add IR capability.

Since I don't have an IR repeater set up in my HT, I actually like the PS3 BT remote better than all the rest because it's the only one I don't have to point over my shoulder. (Yes, I need to get my control system working or bite the bullet and go to a Harmony or whatever with an IR repeater.)

Person99 wrote:
If you are curious, try to set up a real shootout. Frankly, I probably won't because there is little chance I will ever buy a PS3. I might do shootouts in the future against other BD players that I might buy to see if it is upgrade time, but I have little motivation to do a "real" shootout with a PS3 because you would literally have to give it to me for me to consider using it. So, does that make my opinion biased? sure. But, 2 others with no bias thought the LG looked better as did Athanasios and his PS3 owning friend.

I should do a shootout. I need to do a shootout. The problem is, I don't want to go back to an annoyingly slow, rarely-updated single function player, unless it offers significantly, noticeably better image quality in my system.

I just think there are so many variables that it's practically impossible to make general statements like you've made with any degree of confidence. I think it's dubious to claim that "the PS3 is an inferior player" or "the LG player is better than the PS3". What display? What output resolution? What firmware was the LG running? What OS was the PS3 running? You were testing w/your 720p digital, so maybe the scaling from the 1080p source material on the disc to the 720p output to your projector is better. Maybe the PS3 would look better on a 1080p device. Maybe the scaling in the LG is a better match for the display.

I think if you wanted to say, "On MY setup, configured for MY display, and with both sources calibrated, and running whatever versions of software were current for August 2008 (or whenever it was), the LG player looked better than the PS3, and several unbiased onlookers agreed." I'd be fine with that.

Quote:
So, take it for what it is worth. I just think it is a dubious claim to say BD playback from all devices is the same! That was what I was objecting to. Further, with falling BD player prices, the PS3 becomes a less and less attractive option unless it can offer better playback. That is my only point.

I agree with the first part - I wouldn't claim that all BD playback is the same, either. First of all, how would you know unless you try it on your own system. So many variables. I agree that for some people, as the prices fall on the set-top players, they'll be more attractive. I'm not a PS3 fan-boy - I'm just really happy and satisfied with the device. There's a big difference.

I also take issue with your repeated references to the PS3 as a "game console" as though that fact alone somehow means it can't be an excellent BD player. The PS3 being a "game console" has no more bearing on the discussion than the fact that the LG player is made by a Korean company that once made personal hygiene products and cheap, junk, throw-away consumer electronics.

SC
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PostLink    Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The player in and of itself is not the total of responsibility in the end result being seen by the eyes of the viewer. I guess for those eyes viewing the comparison, the LG might have been better on one individual's setup, but applying this beyond that point would need further observations.

Now, come Xmas I'll plug up a standalone BD player and compare it to the PS3, but even that will be limited to how something is represented as a whole system vs. which specific play does a better job being neutral in decoding and outputting of video signal, and how that output signal is handled on the way to and in the imaging system.

I place this right up there with folks evaluating AVR receivers for their 'sound' when a heck of a lot of other components go into the overall deliver of the audio to one's ears. As we all know, and AVR can sound good when installed in one setup and lousy in another.

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