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Person99



Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 4901
Location: Flower Mound, TX


PostLink    Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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MikeEby wrote:
kal wrote:
Oops! You're right Dave! I knew that but didn't notice that they had typed 1080p / 72.

(I just saw the 72 part).

But c'mon guys, why 1080p/72? There's only one or two projectors in the world that can actually resolve that properly. Some have said (Mike Parker included IIRC) that the stock G90 can't even do that .

Kal


You are right about that Kal. Here is the best I can do with my XG 1080p@72Hz. I will sacrifice some sharpness to get away from the 60Hz jitter. I guess its just your prioritys.

Mike


You can get away from 60 Hz judder with 1080i/96. It will also be sharper. If film is the source, you won't be able to tell the difference between 1080i and 1080p. I guess its just your priorities. Smile

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Dave

A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station....
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Person99



Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 4901
Location: Flower Mound, TX


PostLink    Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ecrabb wrote:

Motion artifacts are much more noticeable to me than a slightly soft image.


Why not do 1080i/96 and have sharp AND no motion artifacts?

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ecrabb
Forum Moderator


Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah

TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010


PostLink    Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I assumed that 1080i scan lines (and possibly field flicker) would still be noticeable even at 48/96hz, but maybe not. I'd definitely be open to trying it. Until a processor plops in my lap, I don't have to worry about it, though because it's all conjecture at this point.

But, as soon as the G70 is on the ceiling, I'm sure I won't be happy with 1080/60i (scan lines), and I probably won't be happy with 1080/60p (judder), so I'll have start looking for a solution. I'm sure I'll be drawing upon your knowledge at that point, too! Wink

SC
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Person99



Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 4901
Location: Flower Mound, TX


PostLink    Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ecrabb wrote:

But, as soon as the G70 is on the ceiling, I'm sure I won't be happy with 1080/60i (scan lines), and I probably won't be happy with 1080/60p (judder), so I'll have start looking for a solution. I'm sure I'll be drawing upon your knowledge at that point, too! Wink

SC


You likely won't be able to get rid of scan lines in 1080i from your seating distance. But give the Tim spot shape "hack" a try.

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Dave

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MikeEby



Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 5236
Location: Osceola, Indiana


PostLink    Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Person99 wrote:

I guess its just your priorities. Smile


i new dat dint luk rite... teh spel checkers dint katch it. Smile

Mike

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Phil Smith



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 6709



PostLink    Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You HTPC haters hanging out in the HTPC forum, is like the digital PJ guys hanging out in the CRT PJ forum and causing trouble. Get a life and GO AWAY! Wink Mr. Green

You guys don't get HTPCs, and never will. Us HTPC guys don't care that you don't, and have no desire to convince you otherwise. So why do you always try to piss on our parade? We don't care what you think of HTPCs! We like 'em!

So there! Wink Mr. Green

PS: Using the cost of AnyDVD as reason to opt for hardware players instead of HTPCs is ridiculous. When's the last time you ripped a movie with your PS3? Confused
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MikeEby



Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 5236
Location: Osceola, Indiana


PostLink    Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phil Smith wrote:
PS: Using the cost of AnyDVD as reason to opt for hardware players instead of HTPCs is ridiculous. When's the last time you ripped a movie with your PS3? Confused


I'm sure Sony has that as one of their planned updates. However it will only work on Non-Sony Pictures Studio disks. Shocked

Mike

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lyd



Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Posts: 390
Location: Pending: Deerfield, WI


PostLink    Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ecrabb wrote:
I assumed that 1080i scan lines (and possibly field flicker) would still be noticeable even at 48/96hz, but maybe not. I'd definitely be open to trying it. Until a processor plops in my lap, I don't have to worry about it, though because it's all conjecture at this point.

But, as soon as the G70 is on the ceiling, I'm sure I won't be happy with 1080/60i (scan lines), and I probably won't be happy with 1080/60p (judder), so I'll have start looking for a solution. I'm sure I'll be drawing upon your knowledge at that point, too! Wink

SC


1080i 72 or 96 still has noticeable scan lines for me (96" 16:9 @ ~12 feet), but I would entertain it anyway if it wasn't for the incredibly disturbing motion artifacts. I don't know if this is something with my setup or what -- I certainly never noticed this watching mere mortal television sets -- but sometimes it is like the frames are just tearing themselves apart. Really distracting stuff.

lyd

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kschmit2



Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 1141
Location: Heidelberg, Germany


PostLink    Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

are you sure you process the image properly?

At 1080i96 you should get virtually no motion artifacts.
In fact, I haven't had ANY motion artifacts ever since I moved to that refresh rate (talking about either native 23.976 fps contents, or 1080i60 after inverse telecine).

The "tearing apart" comment sounds more like you use an HTPC, and you get tearing introduced by your renderer.
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lyd



Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Posts: 390
Location: Pending: Deerfield, WI


PostLink    Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kschmit2 wrote:
are you sure you process the image properly?

At 1080i96 you should get virtually no motion artifacts.
In fact, I haven't had ANY motion artifacts ever since I moved to that refresh rate (talking about either native 23.976 fps contents, or 1080i60 after inverse telecine).

The "tearing apart" comment sounds more like you use an HTPC, and you get tearing introduced by your renderer.


Not sure, nope. I only know that I have no problems with 720p/96, so if it was the renderer unable to keep up, wouldn't I see issues with the higher bandwidth first?

Perhaps I am just describing it poorly. It is a difficult thing to describe. "Tearing apart" is not entirely accurate, more an attempt at giving an impression of how severe it seems.

It is sort of like I am seeing one field each from two different frames at the same time, if that makes any sense.

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