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Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16170
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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HK-Steve wrote:
Anyone with a bit of common sense can go way past what MP has done. Thumbs Up Athanasios
Most has been documented here, and on AVS with the thoughts of members.

Just look out there, look at all of the chips and new technology has come along since the Marquee has been designed.


Certainly, LOT can be done to bring the performance of an already good projector, even further.


Cheers
Steve





Mr. Green


Exactly !!!!!! Some high bandwidth chips really aren't as good as some of the lower ones pic quality wise. I tried a few and the one i chose I think is the best compromise of Bandwidth increase over the CL449 and ease of getting it to work with out a major change in resistors and other components. I increased the transistor bandwidth after the AD834 and have been having problems, so high bandwidth is not always good, especially if you need to add components to lower the bandwidth to stop high frequencies to come into the signal, so its a negative effect, increase the chips specs but now add some parts in the signal path to filter out the noise, not good as it will mostly degrade the signal quality. The Intersil EL5166 is the best option for op amp replacement in the video path i have found with regard to bandwidth and noise level.


Athanasios

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Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher


"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan

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Ohmess



Joined: 11 Sep 2008
Posts: 242
Location: Vienna, VA


PostLink    Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nashou66 wrote:
Ohmess wrote:
Hey Athanasios, I have a question for you on the mods in this thread.

Obviously, you have put a lot of time and energy into experimenting with these mods. And by the way, your instructions with the very clear pictures have helped me out a lot.

I noticed a few weeks back a set of Ultra boards went for $1000 here. Then there are the Mike Parker mods, which may become available again soon.

Now, I too enjoy doing this stuff myself, but my question is have you done a "modify v buy" evaluation on some of the alternatives?


This one reason I started this thread was to give a pictorial description of the maintenance thread started by MP, And add in
the addition of upgrading caps and other parts described in the linked threads from AVS by Jea hong Lea and McPherve at the beginning of this thread. Also the cost of the Mike parker mods are a bit to rich for my blood. even though I do not think I would be able to achieve the same level of performance as the MP video chain mods I think for most of us it will suffice. But if you are a die hard enthusiest and want the best form your Marquee his mods Are the best and Greg Eisemann is another option as his Barco mods are highly regard and recently he has spoken to me vis e-mail and want to help out on the Vim mods and give some secretes but not all. I might Ask greg for a set of boards to compare to the stock Vim and my own Moded VNB's . But If you want the best go with a pros Mods for the Video Chain as there is a lot of hours spent to get it right. Both Mike and Greg do good work and have good customer relations . I was actually going to offer my work to Curt and Mike for any over flow work they might have as I have gotten very good at board level work and my soldering work station is awesome for those small delicate parts. the Hot air gun is a must for this type of work.

But I love doing things for myself due the satisfaction I get knowing i did it, on my own, and many here feel the same.

Athanasios


I too like the satisfaction of doing work myself.

As far as the subcontracting this goes, you would probably get to take your knowledge up another level by doing that. On the other hand, you probably would have to change your free flowing communication style as I'm sure Mike and Curt don't want their proprietary stuff given away. You probably already know all of this.

Also, what do you use the hot air gun for? I've used mine for upholstery repair on a car, and for shrinking wiring sleeves, but that's about it.
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16170
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a rework soldering station that has a hot air-gun integral to it, it has attachments for the output to be able to concentrate the heat to exact locations or over an entire SMD Chip, it heats the solder and removal of the part is very easy. If you plan to of lots of work i'd get one. I have it listed in one of my previous posts.
Of course I would not give any additional info on the MP mods as those are proprietary to Mike. I would however give all the info I have already deon on mu own.

Athanasios

_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher


"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan

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HK-Steve



Joined: 15 Jul 2006
Posts: 849
Location: Switzerland

TV/Projector: Marquee 9500, Epson 8100


PostLink    Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Athanasios,
There are 2 other chips which perform way better than the EL5166.


It really comes down to how each board performs, as each projector is a little diffierent,
so a little tuning is required to get the best performance, but when the sweet spot is found,

Oh Yeah Baby, It ROCKS.




Cheers
Steve
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jantje112



Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Posts: 327



PostLink    Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HK-Steve wrote:
Athanasios,
There are 2 other chips which perform way better than the EL5166.


It really comes down to how each board performs, as each projector is a little diffierent,
so a little tuning is required to get the best performance, but when the sweet spot is found,

Oh Yeah Baby, It ROCKS.




Cheers
Steve


Which one?
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16170
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have the OPA695 but have not tried it yet as I like the El5166 but for fun i might give it a try and I think this is one of your right?

Athanasios

_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher


"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan

One Smart Dog!!!

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Ohmess



Joined: 11 Sep 2008
Posts: 242
Location: Vienna, VA


PostLink    Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HK-Steve wrote:
Athanasios,
There are 2 other chips which perform way better than the EL5166.


It really comes down to how each board performs, as each projector is a little diffierent,
so a little tuning is required to get the best performance, but when the sweet spot is found,

Oh Yeah Baby, It ROCKS.




Cheers
Steve


Do tell. I am getting ready to install three of these, but if there is a better option I'd like to consider it.
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16170
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With those other chips there are resistor changes, possible inductor values, added in, additional caps in various other locations and possible addtions to the other chips in the video path Look back for Jarmos'(1031) use of the THS3210 chip very high bandwith that need like 5 decoupling caps and some inductos and various resitors to get it to work. Too much work for not a big improvement.I got it to work on the red and green channle but it was not working on the blue, i changed the chip as I thought it was a bad one but nothing all lit up raster, no video i put in the EL5166 and it worked with the other two chips, kinda a hybrid VIM, but i didnt like the chip it looked fake not film like more like a digital, and the colors I could not get right calibrating , i went back tot eh El5166 and was able to get a much better grey scale. Its not all about resolution the Blacks that the EL5166 produce are great with great shadow detailas well.

Athanasios

_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher


"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan

One Smart Dog!!!

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Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
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HK-Steve



Joined: 15 Jul 2006
Posts: 849
Location: Switzerland

TV/Projector: Marquee 9500, Epson 8100


PostLink    Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't use the THS3210, way to unstable, too much required to make stable.


Hmmmm, do I give away my selected chip which is just a little beter than the OPA695, good one Athanasios Thumbs Up
Got it right, the OPA is very good.



Cheers
Steve
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16170
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I need to test it,I need to see if i have the resitors for the feedback and gain they recomend before i try it.

Athanasios

_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher


"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan

One Smart Dog!!!

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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16170
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also have the Opa693 and 694, they have lower gain of 1 but might work still with that low of a gain if you can increase it on the second RGB with another amp that can go higher. The input stage is where you really want the higher bandwidth then you can lower along the chain as long as you don't go to low, at least this is what i got from my research. Even MIke Parkers chip is not a high bandwidth chip like the Opa or the THS, I think he uses the Analog Devices AD8000 possibly, its similar to one of the lower bandwidth Opa's. I am sure he wont say which one he uses but i has said which ones he doesn't, I know its not the THS, and the OPA's from past comments but he could have changed since those comments were made. Aslo a higher Flatgain bandwidth is something you should look for too, one place the EL5166 can be betterd by some other Chips. Although Jarmo like the EL on the final stage on the VIM with the THS on the front end. I need to do some experimenting, what a big pain in the Arse !!!!

EDIT: This discussion has got my interested agin i re looking at the OPA695 and It does look like a good chip a bit more noise that the EL5166 but the high 320Mhz flatgain Bandwidth is very enticing. I have the 6.8uf decoupling caps as the THS3210 uses the same and i think i have the 500-550ohm resistors to use for the Feedback and Gain resistors. I might play a bit this weekend !

Athanasios

_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher


"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan

One Smart Dog!!!

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1031



Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 657
Location: Finland


PostLink    Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HK-Steve wrote:
Don't use the THS3210, way to unstable, too much required to make stable.


Hmmmm, do I give away my selected chip which is just a little beter than the OPA695, good one Athanasios Thumbs Up
Got it right, the OPA is very good.



Cheers
Steve

That THS3210 works on 2035-02p vim at first stage quite well. Problem was to get gain to proper level. Normally chips at that point need run gain value 2 but somehow that ths gived proper levels at "datasheet" gain of 1. At neckboard that one was too hard to tame...
Edit. How good is that THS3201 (or was it 3210..) It was tad better than clc449 but i havent compaired it with Opaīs etc.

_________________
Marquee 9500LC (Frankenyokes / Thomas electric tubes / HD-10L / +many modīs)
DVDO VP-50
New hobby, Rally
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vX2Rtpr1njs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZP9FEFXV5c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j065vei6j6s
http://www.facebook.com/pages/JTS-Racing-team/204443719572685


Last edited by 1031 on Fri Oct 31, 2008 6:22 am; edited 1 time in total
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16170
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is Jarmos adaption of the THS3201



And his Cap layout description:

1031 wrote:
Those caps on that picture are 15uF low esr tant+470nF cer+ 100nf(that original one) and 47pF cer and that blue one is 100nF and that is between vcc and vdd (+5/-5v)pins. Also i replaced those 4.7ohm resistors with 56uH smd coils. I scoped noise voltage on vcc/vdd pins and that cap combination showed that noise was very low. Much lower than original 4.7ohm+100nF combination.


I Forgot what value resitors he used for the feed back, what were they Jarmo? and I think the DC restor resistor need a change out as well correct?

Athanasios

_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher


"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan

One Smart Dog!!!

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Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
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1031



Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 657
Location: Finland


PostLink    Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 5:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

About that picture.. There is 1.2k and 2.7k resistors, later 2.7k was changed to 1.2k so both resistors are same. I dont remember anymore what was that "dc resistor" picture shows that it is original 1.21k one but i used something different there.. Hard to chek because that Vim is now totally unmoddet, i needet one original vim for my projects and that one is now like is was when it come out of factory. About that cap stack, if i remember correct i added 10nFīs(between vdd/vcc-gnd) and used also 10nF at between vcc/vdd instead that 100nF that is on that picture.
_________________
Marquee 9500LC (Frankenyokes / Thomas electric tubes / HD-10L / +many modīs)
DVDO VP-50
New hobby, Rally
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vX2Rtpr1njs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZP9FEFXV5c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j065vei6j6s
http://www.facebook.com/pages/JTS-Racing-team/204443719572685
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Ohmess



Joined: 11 Sep 2008
Posts: 242
Location: Vienna, VA


PostLink    Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Nashou -- I have a VDM upgrade question for you:

In seeking to replace the caps with Wima caps, I was unable to locate 50V .47uF Wima caps to replace C19, C25, C43, C706, C806 and C906. My question is, could I go with 63V caps?

Thanks.
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16170
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

use this one: http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=H7Zs1csUUyicHJGe42DNww%3d%3d

Nashou

_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher


"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan

One Smart Dog!!!

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Ohmess



Joined: 11 Sep 2008
Posts: 242
Location: Vienna, VA


PostLink    Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 2:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

VDM Help Needed:

So, I did all of the resistors on my VDM, the Caps at C6, C15, C31, C41, and then C704, C708, C709; C804, C808, C809; and C904, C908 and C909.

Put it all back together, fired it up, watched the last three races of the Formula 1 season (BMW looked better before I watched those last three races), and decided to do more.

So, I decided to swap out all the mylar caps with Wima caps, and to replace the TL084s with TLE2074s. For some reason, I thought I only needed three TLE2074s (and bought 4) and so I've only swapped out U2, U12, U701 and U901. I got a vfail when I first put the projector back together. When I replaced the 1.0uF 50V capacitor at R46 I failed to note that this cap was placed over a 75k ohm resistor (it came up easily with the mylar cap and was hidden under it). Once I replaced the resistor, the projector fired up again. However, I now have something unusual. The rasters on all three tubes are way too high. Here is a picture, on the ceiling, (I know, I suck with the camera):




The green tube is as it appeared when I reinitialized the projector. I moved the focus coil on the blue tube; hence the difference.

I could use some help please.
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16170
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 2:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Ohmess, I have no idea what happened, although i have not changed out those op amps, U2 is part of the focus section and U701 and U901 are for the vertical yokes. It has to be in those. Id change them back to the originals and see what happens, you should have done one chip at a time so you could see what happens after!!! U901 is part of the Green and Blue and U701 is for the red section. Change out one and see if that changes anything.

R46 is in the U12 circuit now that i am looking at it more closely , it could have caused something to short out that Chip. Change that one first. You may have to check some parts after that op amp now, R49, Q3R77 and Q2.

Athanasios

_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher


"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan

One Smart Dog!!!

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Ohmess



Joined: 11 Sep 2008
Posts: 242
Location: Vienna, VA


PostLink    Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 3:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dude -- thanks for looking into my problem. I'll check that stuff out and report back. Your suggestion of looking into other items on the U12 circuit makes sense, particularly in light of the fact that the first time I fired up the projector (without the 75Kohm resistor) I did not get a "whoosh" and did not get a failure light. I shut it down, and tried again and again no whoosh. On the second try, however, the vfail light appeared. This may indicate that something else in the circuit went due to the attempt to operate the projector without the R46 resistor.

I checked Q1, Q2 and Q3 before posting, and they appear to be ok. I do not have the proper schematic for my board (the one I have is for an older board), so I was shooting in the dark.


One (rookie) question I have; did I read that cap correctly? The 1u0K was confusing to me in that it seemed to adopt a different type of designation than the others (with the u in place of the decimal); whereas C49 has .015 printed on it and the others are nF.
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16170
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 3:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the Schematic that cap is designated as C1004 and is 1u0 which is 1uf mylar 50v so same value but higher vdc is ok.

here is a good unit converter for you to use.

http://www.unitconversion.org/unit_converter/electrostatic-capacitance.html

Athanasios

the schematics are on my down load site below it has the M8000 and the newer one's too so you have to search through them all.

_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher


"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan

One Smart Dog!!!

Marquee High Performance Bellows now shipping!!
Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
Marquee C-element and Bellow removal
Back to top
View user's photo album (1 photos)
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