Return to the CurtPalme.com main site CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum
A forum with a sense of fun and community for Home Theater enthusiasts!
Products for Sale ] [ FAQ: Hooking it all up ] [ CRT Primer/FAQ ] [ Best/Worst CRT Projectors List ] [ Setup Tips & Manuals ] [ Advanced Procedures ] [ Newsletters ]

 
Forum FAQForum FAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist  Photo AlbumsPhoto Albums  RegisterRegister 
 MembershipClub Membership   ProfileProfile   Private MessagesPrivate Messages   Log inLog in 
Blu-ray disc release list and must-have titles. Buy the latest and best Blu-ray titles to show off in your home theater!

Portable laser projector... Very cool.
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer-friendly view    CurtPalme.com Forum Index -> Digital Projectors
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
ecrabb
Forum Moderator



Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah

TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:29 am    Post subject: Portable laser projector... Very cool. Reply with quote


        Register to remove this ad. It's free!
Check this out:
http://gizmodo.com/341927/video-microvision-pico-projector-throwing-ipod-videoon-some-dudes-back

If they can do that now with a tiny portable battery-powered device, they can't be far away from using the technology in a shoebox-sized package . Laser projection is the first non-CRT projection tech I've excited about for a long time.

Bring on the perfect blacks!

SC
Back to top
View user's photo album (10 photos)
AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26690
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Microvision says that SHOW can project a widescreen, WVGA (848 X 480 pixels), DVD quality image


I hope they step up that resolution. But yes cool for sure. Thumbs Up

_________________
Tech support for nothing

CRT.

HD done right!
Back to top
View user's photo album (27 photos)
lyd




Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Posts: 390
Location: Lake Mills, Wi


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool. I wasn't aware of this tech. Who needs a shoebox? I've already rationalized hanging a volkswagon from my ceiling, just make something affordable! Wink

lyd
Back to top
AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26690
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lyd wrote:
Cool. I wasn't aware of this tech. Who needs a shoebox? I've already rationalized hanging a volkswagon from my ceiling, just make something affordable! Wink

lyd


Interesting bit under this photo: http://www.colorvision-lasers.com/cactus.aspx

Corporation For Laser Optical research wrote:


RESOLUTION: >1920 x 1080
CONTRAST RATIO: >4000:1 sequential
COLOR COORDINATES: Laser source wavelengths: Red - 628nm Blue - 447nm Green - 532nm
UNIFORMITY: >90% edge to edge
RGB VIDEO BANDWIDTH: 100 MHz (or 150MHz available)


What's the bandwidth needed for 1080P60?

_________________
Tech support for nothing

CRT.

HD done right!
Back to top
View user's photo album (27 photos)
lyd




Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Posts: 390
Location: Lake Mills, Wi


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AnalogRocks wrote:
lyd wrote:
Cool. I wasn't aware of this tech. Who needs a shoebox? I've already rationalized hanging a volkswagon from my ceiling, just make something affordable! Wink

lyd


Interesting bit under this photo: http://www.colorvision-lasers.com/cactus.aspx

Corporation For Laser Optical research wrote:


RESOLUTION: >1920 x 1080
CONTRAST RATIO: >4000:1 sequential
COLOR COORDINATES: Laser source wavelengths: Red - 628nm Blue - 447nm Green - 532nm
UNIFORMITY: >90% edge to edge
RGB VIDEO BANDWIDTH: 100 MHz (or 150MHz available)


What's the bandwidth needed for 1080P60?


Close to 200 MHz according to this guy. Interesting article.

lyd
Back to top
kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 17850
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm surprised that that contrast ratio for this laser is only 4000:1. That's low.

Kal

_________________

Support our site by using our affiliate links. We thank you!
My basement/HT/bar/brewery build 2.0
Back to top
View user's photo album (18 photos)
ecrabb
Forum Moderator



Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah

TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, tough crowd. Are you guys keeping in mind this thing is the size of a frickin' pack of cigs? iPod size? Come on, that's impressive, regardless of contrast ratio or resolution.

Here's an image from one of their larger machines:

RESOLUTION: >1920 x 1080
CONTRAST RATIO: >4000:1 sequential
COLOR COORDINATES: Laser source wavelengths: Red - 628nm Blue - 447nm Green - 532nm
UNIFORMITY: >90% edge to edge
RGB VIDEO BANDWIDTH: 100 MHz (or 150MHz available)


I also thought this was interesting:
Quote:
Specifications
Typical laser projector specifications:

Brightness: 500 lumens and greater.1
Resolution: 1920 x 1080
Contrast ratio: >3500:1 sequential
Color coordinates: Primary colors (see chromaticity diagram below):
Red laser – 628nm
Green laser – 532nm
Blue laser – 447nm
Uniformity: >90% edge to edge

1 Light output is determined only by the number of RGB lasers employed in the system. COLOR has built and delivered systems capable of greater than 4000 lumens output.
2 4x2k resolution has recently been demonstrated by JVC and Sony and will be commercially available this year. These systems are fully compatible with COLOR’s lasers.


4kx2k - That's cool. If they've done high-res, and 4000 lumens, then the system has legs. They just need to crank up the contrast some. The only question is whether it could ever be made inexpensively enough for home use. The portable version is at least encouraging.

SC
Back to top
View user's photo album (10 photos)
kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 17850
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep, don't get me wrong - it's impressive!

I just always thought that with laser it was basically impossible to NOT have high CRs given the way that the laser is either 100% on or off just like a CRT projector's electron beam...

Kal

_________________

Support our site by using our affiliate links. We thank you!
My basement/HT/bar/brewery build 2.0
Back to top
View user's photo album (18 photos)
ecrabb
Forum Moderator



Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah

TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In its purest form, the laser can either be on or completely off... But, in their large setup, they're using the laser as a pure coherent light source in conjunction with LCoS. They must not be modulating the laser.
Quote:
COLOR’s laser video projection systems utilize proprietary diode pumped solid state (DPSS) red, green and blue lasers (RGB) developed and manufactured at COLOR. Lasers are coupled to liquid crystal on silicon microdisplay (LCoS) type projection systems to produce video images with high resolution, contrast ratio, uniformity, color saturation and virtually no speckle. The result is a remarkable presentation that truly needs to be seen to appreciate.

If they were using only lasers without some kind of imaging chip, then they need to use multiple rotating mirrors to get V- and H-scan. You wanna talk big bucks, start sourcing optical mirrors and motors and bearings that can rotate at 50,000 RPM with super-tight tolerances. The complexity and expense of the components are the main reason I've never had any hope of a resolution-independent scanning laser-based display system replacing CRT - exciting as that would be.

So, this is still a fixed-pixel system. Hopefully, the system design has room for improvement, though.

SC
Back to top
View user's photo album (10 photos)
JustGreg




Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 3098
Location: Kenosha, WI


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd love to see this in portable wireless productivity devices, re:PDA's. Married to WiMax it will be a formidable portable productivity tool. IMO I think the product/technology will run into the same obstacle that prevents more subscriptions for delivered content (streaming TV, movies, etc) to current portable wireless products and that's battery life.

It's been my experience that people have unrealistic expectations of how long a battery should last and how often they should have to charge it DESPITE the stats for talk and standby times being in their manuals and NORMALLY explained to them before they purchase their handsets. (we do)

Although battery technology continues to change and mature it's changing too slowly for the power hungry devices being produced. That's the reason most devices such as the iPhone or iPod or devices of that ilk have such small displays. You want longer overall operating times (cell phone usage, productivity tools usage such as Outlook, M$ Office CE, etc) you have to go to devices like the BlackBerry, Palms, UTC Starcom PPC 6xxx series devices. There isn't any one device that delivers everything the most demanding customers need. A blend of 3 or 4 products I sell would make for the 'perfect' power user handset. That isn't going to happen due to exclusivity, licensing, yada yada.

The BB's, Palms, PPC devices, etc have large displays but the overall device is too 'huge' for alot of people yet they want the same features in a smaller package. However to support the display size and the amount of time that can slip away using the productivity software requires a bigger overall package to house the bigger battery.

I jokingly invented a shaker charger for use in larger devices such as PDA's (like found in emergency kit flashlights) but then decided to patent it. Granted it'll look strange to see people jacking off their phones Rolling Eyes out and about in public but
until battery technology can keep up with portable demands it seemed like a logical idea.
I also applied for a patent for a charger that utilizes the body's micro voltage to provide slowwwwww charges to portable devices. Regardless of how realistic or feasibile it is, if somebody smarter than I makes it work, I hold the patent which I'll GLADLY sell. Mr. Green

BOT, in my line of work a portable wireless device with a laser pj sure wouldn't hurt activations/sales even if the batteries are the weak link.

Greg

_________________
Greg

"Is it ignorance or apathy? Hey, I don't know and I don't care!" --Jimmy Buffett
Back to top
kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 17850
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ecrabb wrote:
In its purest form, the laser can either be on or completely off... But, in their large setup, they're using the laser as a pure coherent light source in conjunction with LCoS. They must not be modulating the laser.
Quote:
COLOR’s laser video projection systems utilize proprietary diode pumped solid state (DPSS) red, green and blue lasers (RGB) developed and manufactured at COLOR. Lasers are coupled to liquid crystal on silicon microdisplay (LCoS) type projection systems to produce video images with high resolution, contrast ratio, uniformity, color saturation and virtually no speckle. The result is a remarkable presentation that truly needs to be seen to appreciate.

If they were using only lasers without some kind of imaging chip, then they need to use multiple rotating mirrors to get V- and H-scan. You wanna talk big bucks, start sourcing optical mirrors and motors and bearings that can rotate at 50,000 RPM with super-tight tolerances. The complexity and expense of the components are the main reason I've never had any hope of a resolution-independent scanning laser-based display system replacing CRT - exciting as that would be.

So, this is still a fixed-pixel system. Hopefully, the system design has room for improvement, though.

SC

Interesting! I never would have thought to use laser as only the light source. This makes a lot of sense. Less heat. And no "bulb" to replace as it should last years and years I think.

Kal

_________________

Support our site by using our affiliate links. We thank you!
My basement/HT/bar/brewery build 2.0
Back to top
View user's photo album (18 photos)
Leo




Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Posts: 55



PostLink    Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ecrabb wrote:
In its purest form, the laser can either be on or completely off... But, in their large setup, they're using the laser as a pure coherent light source in conjunction with LCoS. They must not be modulating the laser.
Quote:
COLOR’s laser video projection systems utilize proprietary diode pumped solid state (DPSS) red, green and blue lasers (RGB) developed and manufactured at COLOR. Lasers are coupled to liquid crystal on silicon microdisplay (LCoS) type projection systems to produce video images with high resolution, contrast ratio, uniformity, color saturation and virtually no speckle. The result is a remarkable presentation that truly needs to be seen to appreciate.

If they were using only lasers without some kind of imaging chip, then they need to use multiple rotating mirrors to get V- and H-scan. You wanna talk big bucks, start sourcing optical mirrors and motors and bearings that can rotate at 50,000 RPM with super-tight tolerances. The complexity and expense of the components are the main reason I've never had any hope of a resolution-independent scanning laser-based display system replacing CRT - exciting as that would be.

So, this is still a fixed-pixel system. Hopefully, the system design has room for improvement, though.

SC


Two completely different products are being linked to here. The original post links to Microvision's scanning laser pico projector "Show". It utilizes MEMS technology in it's scanning mirror, that produces an image pixel by pixel (same as crt raster-style scanning). It is only capable of 15-20 lumens @ 480p but is intended for the ipod crowd. The actual light engine is only the tip of the projector, the remainder of the projector is the battery. Motorola is planning on integrating the SHOW into cellphones. Rumor is that Microvision is working on higher resolution, but if/when that will make it to market is uncertain. All we can hope for is mass market adoption for the Show, and maybe this will encourage Microvision to enter the home theater projector market. If this mini laser projector comes to market they are saying less than $300 retail by end of 2008.
Back to top
perisoft




Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 2920
Location: Ithaca, NY


PostLink    Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder if Microvision will use Macrovision...
_________________
Back to top
WanMan




Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10273



PostLink    Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm still not seeing where I can get a mount kit to equip the sharks with.
_________________
Trust no one. Absolutely no one. Advice of the board.
Back to top
Rob Babcock




Joined: 15 Mar 2007
Posts: 85



PostLink    Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As Bright Eyes once sang, "I don't know when but a day is gonna come..." 8)
Back to top
Leo




Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Posts: 55



PostLink    Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are some more links for the Microvision laser pico projector "Show".

Current model for late 2008/early 2009 is 480p, potentially infinite native on/off (only limited by lumen output, and you can always stack) and I'm guessing really high ansi contrast as well (coherent light source synced to a scanning mirror and no lens). Also our eyes are more sensitive to laser light so 10 lumens from this could actually be comparable to 50-100 lumens (just a guess) from a bulb based projector.

http://www.microvision.com/pico_projector_displays/standalone.html

http://www.microvision.com/pico_projector_displays/howitworks.html

http://video.msn.com/video.aspx?mkt=en-us&vid=464465e5-0f48-445b-83b9-e1c4390cce7e -->best demonstration to date. Very Happy

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=microvision&search_type=

http://www.ipms.fraunhofer.de/en/products/microscanner.shtml A little more info on the technology developed by Microvision & Fraunhofer.

http://www.microvision.com/pdfs/show_specs.pdf Current hardware specs

If the IQ is good, I'm planning on getting at least 5 of these @ $300-$400 a piece and doing a stack for 480p on an 80 inch high-power screen. A sharp, pixel-free, high contrast 480p can look really good at smaller screen sizes. Of course, if you were willing to shell out the cash, you could always blend. Wink

One more video of a different product that got some news a while back:

3d? projector (projects onto air) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55QsQXLHlCA

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=helio+display&search_type=
Back to top
WanMan




Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10273



PostLink    Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pico projector? I am waiting on the femto projector.
_________________
Trust no one. Absolutely no one. Advice of the board.
Back to top
perisoft




Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 2920
Location: Ithaca, NY


PostLink    Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WanMan wrote:
pico projector? I am waiting on the femto projector.


Small potatoes. I await the atto projector.

_________________
Back to top
Leo




Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Posts: 55



PostLink    Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

..

Last edited by Leo on Fri Apr 25, 2008 5:06 pm; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
garyfritz




Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 12024
Location: Fort Collins, CO


PostLink    Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That PicoP is very cool. As Kal was saying above, I thought all the "laser" projectors were just using lasers as a light source for an LCoS or other similar imaging chip. But it looks like the PicoP is painting the image pixel-by-pixel, modulating the lasers on each pixel, so yes, they should be capable of essentially infinite contrast. And zero optics (no lenses, etc) to mess up the contrast ratio. Just a little mirror scanning the image. I'm amazed they can get that so reliable and cheap.

Pretty cool how you don't even have to focus it. Just shine it on a wall, any wall, any distance. Very cool.
Back to top
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer-friendly view    CurtPalme.com Forum Index -> Digital Projectors All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum