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1209s - Green is blooming to the sides

 
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Rittberg



Joined: 05 Aug 2006
Posts: 45



PostLink    Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 1:26 pm    Post subject: 1209s - Green is blooming to the sides Reply with quote


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When I am projecting a thin line, the green tube only is "blooming" to the sides (<-I->) but it's razor sharp with no blooming effect on the top/bottom of the line.
I am attaching a picture to describe the problem.
The resolution of the screen is 1920 * 1080.
The green grid was taken from the "Nokia monitor tester"

Tried to adjust with the optical, electronic focusing & Astig, but this is the max. that I achieved.

Can that "blooming" problem being solved? Maybe a neck board mod.
Thanks



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r.bauer



Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 274
Location: The Netherlands


PostLink    Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you sure it isn't optical focus?
- 1) If you have a drop down screen, move the side/corner of the screen closer to or further away from the projector to see if the optical focus improves.
- 2) This is also a good method (moving screen away/closer or moving a piece of paper in front of the screen away/closer to projector) to check for proper scheimpflug adjustment.

Are you sure it isn't astig?
- 1) Is the mechanical astig set properly? This should be done before dynamic astig. Before doing this, set Dyn. Astig manually at 49 for all 3 colors in all 8 positions.
- 2) Dynamic astig can only be set properly when optimal optical (center)focus is achieved.
- 3) Set dynamic astig using small dots (NEC pattern generator), contrast at 99 and overfocus (= focus +20). Goal is to achive round dots. Sometimes a little more or less overfocus is required to clearly outline the distortion in the dots that need to be corrected. This depens on each individual tube.
Too much overfocus makes adjustment impossible as the dots all become blobs with no contour.

After these two adjustments, check your EM-focus again.
Is the focus coil properly positioned along the tube neck?
- 1) Set focus at 50 (Barco suggests focus at 57), loosen the focus coil in front and in the back, and move the focus coil slowly along the neck for sharpest image. This also gives some idea of the age of the tube. Older tubes need to have the coils placed closer to the neckboard.
- 2) Set top/bottom and left-right focus.

I personally like the NEC pattern generator, display TEXT in the medium (not highest!) resolution. When adjusting focus you can check for staircasing in letters, such as Y or Italic E, N, etc. Strive for good staircasing.
When all is done properly, the difference of +1 or -1 in focus adjustment should be visible on screen. This can take up to 8-10 hours, it is a lot of work.

For scheimpflug you can use Nokia patterns with its handy corner focus patterns.

Last but not least it might be a focus board problem. Check this by swapping the blue and green focus coil connections. See that when adjusting focus : Blue On Source and displaying a green-only pattern the focus of green can be improved.
And finally it might just be a tube problem. I have seen this behavior once or twice. Only another tube would solve this problem, very sad when this is the case.

Blooming is NOT neckboard related. The neckboard is only related to the intensity of the electron beam and not the focus of the electron beam. Check for yourself by swapping two neckboards.


Last edited by r.bauer on Sat Jan 12, 2008 6:42 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech


Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 23678
Location: Langley, BC

TV/Projector: All of them!


PostLink    Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ditto to what he said above.
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Rittberg



Joined: 05 Aug 2006
Posts: 45



PostLink    Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reinier thanks,
Wow, lot issues to check again.
Thanks.
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r.bauer



Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 274
Location: The Netherlands


PostLink    Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rittberg wrote:
Wow, lot issues to check again.


Have a nice weekend Mr. Green
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Rittberg



Joined: 05 Aug 2006
Posts: 45



PostLink    Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reinier thanks again,

After reading carefully your instruction let me answer:
> optical focus? < - Itís perfect, I already done it by using the method of moving a piece of paper away/closerÖ.

> astig? < The picture was taken from the mid point.

>EM-focus < the best focus is around 39 - 42 %, I can see that the focusing is changing while going upper or lower the mentioned figures.

I take a new picture with a lower contrast ~ 35% (the contrast in the first picture was 73%) the blooming is nearly not visible, in order to see the green lines you have to increase the brightness on the monitor.

Thanks.



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Barry



Joined: 01 Feb 2007
Posts: 186
Location: Los Gatos , Ca.


PostLink    Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pardon me for butting in on this thread.....the tutorial on astigmatism set up was very usefull to add to all I have read....

Question for image sizing: On my 1209 I set up my PJ such that the raster and image edges are within 2mm of the tube edge to maximize phosphor usage. The PJ is mounted 8" closer to the screen than the manual specifies in order to accomplish this. Is 2mm sufficient underscan for these tubes or am I pushing it too hard?

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Addicted to buying cool used expensive toys...(especially CRT projectors) Barco 1209, 1208 and Elektra Espresso Maxi2 most recent additions.....
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Rittberg



Joined: 05 Aug 2006
Posts: 45



PostLink    Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 4:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Following Reinier's advises, I have to check and to adjust the mechanical astig & the focus coil position.

Even I am familiar with the PJ and I have good technical skills, itís going to be the first time touching this parts when the PJ is on.
I will appreciate receiving safety advises in general and particularly of how to avoid electrical shock specially a 35KV one Smile

Thanks.
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nettwerkjohn



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 887
Location: Nelson, sunshine capital of New Zealand


PostLink    Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 5:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, if you electrocute yourself, can i have your 1209?
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Barry



Joined: 01 Feb 2007
Posts: 186
Location: Los Gatos , Ca.


PostLink    Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 5:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know that the power supply is not ground neutral. My standard rule is never use more than one hand touching anything electronic that has a voltage level that could be dangerous. High voltage lines are pretty well insulated and the currents are fairly low, but they are easy to avoid....they tend to all be red.

For me, the nastier ones are the deflection yoke voltages, again, easy to avoid if you know. The key is know where your hands are and what is near them. Most places are fairly safe but it is a good idea to know what you are doing and what voltages might be present.

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Addicted to buying cool used expensive toys...(especially CRT projectors) Barco 1209, 1208 and Elektra Espresso Maxi2 most recent additions.....
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r.bauer



Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 274
Location: The Netherlands


PostLink    Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Barry wrote:
Question for image sizing: On my 1209 I set up my PJ such that the raster and image edges are within 2mm of the tube edge to maximize phosphor usage. The PJ is mounted 8" closer to the screen than the manual specifies in order to accomplish this. Is 2mm sufficient underscan for these tubes or am I pushing it too hard?

2mm is just fine, but enlarging the image by this much will make it more difficult to obtain a proper geometric image on screen. Lines might start to bend just a little bit more and you may not end up with that perfect geometric, rectangular image. But the overall increase in lightoutput and sharpness will be the reward.

One drawback of the HD-10 family of lenses is that they are not as sharp on the outside as on the center of the image. But again, the advantages outweigh the disadvantages in my opinion.
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r.bauer



Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 274
Location: The Netherlands


PostLink    Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rittberg wrote:
Even I am familiar with the PJ and I have good technical skills, itís going to be the first time touching this parts when the PJ is on.
I will appreciate receiving safety advises in general and particularly of how to avoid electrical shock specially a 35KV one Smile


Simple answer: Know what you are doing!
In practice, in a properly functioning projector the risk of 35kV injury is not that high, as these circuits are very well insulated and protected. It becomes dangerous when there is the occasional arcing going on or wire insulations has worn. So make sure the projector you are working on has no flaws and is operating properly.

The deflection voltages, which go up as high as 1200V are more dangerous as the circuits driving them are much, much more powerful. A jolt of Horizontal Deflection voltage won't be forgotten soon and could kill you. The 1200/1208/1209 /2 /s chassis is a bit dangerous in this respect as these voltages go through the scan switch board located in the front alu cover.
The horizontal deflection voltage runs through coils and resistors which can easily be touched by your hand! So stay away from the scan switch board! The original BG1200 chassis is the most dangerous of them all because on this projector the scanswitch board is positioned around the green tube and leveling the defl yoke (to avoid using top-bottom centerline skew adjustment) or moving the focus coil brings your hand very close to this board.

The astig magnets are relatively safe to touch. Closest thing is the neckboard, where on 9"projectors you have more room to turn and rotate the magnets as in 8" projectors. This has to do with the design of the neckboard.
Although the neckboards have high voltages (200V, 900V) running through them, the circuits are well out of reach from your fingers. The only thing that can be touched is the ceramics of the large resistors and that is safe. They have no bare contacts that can be touched.

As we are striving for that perfect image, consider your own limitations in this post:

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=50431#50431

Although the discussion was about blue, but it definitely also helps for green.
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