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Should I go with Vista?
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benareeno



Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 1614
Location: ottawa, canada


PostLink    Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 10:38 pm    Post subject: Should I go with Vista? Reply with quote


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I've read a lot of information that says vista is better for HTPC as it is not as prone to studdering....this has me very interested. All I will ever use this computer for is HD video...so, am I wise to go Vista?

PS. I have an 8500GT video card...is that proving to be a viable solution in Vista?

Ben
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Joust



Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 2430
Location: Almonte, Ontario, Canada

TV/Projector: Marquee 8501LC


PostLink    Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that is probably because it needs a LOT more machine simply to run.
If you put XP on those machines it would probably hum along nicely.
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nuttall_chris



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 832
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada


PostLink    Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think alot of it has to do with driver support. The Nvidia drivers are much better for Vista than they are for XP. I find that XP and Vista run at around the same speed on the same machine as long as you have 2G of RAM.

The downside of Vista with the Nvidia cards is the loss of custom resolution support. Also Powerstrip does not support the 8xxx series of cards.

My advice is ditch the 8500 and get an ATI as the ATI has full support for custom resolutions and full hardware acceleration for the HD formats.

Chris.
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WanMan



Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10261



PostLink    Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 2:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joust, I had no problems installing and running Vista Business on a Celeron 430 with 2GB of RAM on a cheap motherboard using a questionable hard drive. Of course, I didn't try to employ that setup for anything other than surfing and emailing. Smile I did find the boot and shutdown to be quicker than XP Professional on almost everything except a C2D.
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overclkr



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 4227



PostLink    Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

VISTA=BIG BROTHER.

Trust me......

Cliffy
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Joust



Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 2430
Location: Almonte, Ontario, Canada

TV/Projector: Marquee 8501LC


PostLink    Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 3:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

overclkr wrote:
VISTA=BIG BROTHER.

Trust me......

Cliffy


how do you know this??

Ben, I have an ATI 6800GTX I don't need.
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jask



Joined: 17 Mar 2006
Posts: 8842
Location: kamloops BC


PostLink    Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joust wrote:
overclkr wrote:
VISTA=BIG BROTHER.

Trust me......

Cliffy


how do you know this??

Ben, I have an ATI 6800GTX I don't need.



Start here:
http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html

then here:
http://www.techworld.com/opsys/news/index.cfm?newsid=7675

still interested?
http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=vista%3D+big+brother&meta=

In short this is a ponderous resource sucking revision that does VERY little for the end user, but offloads the work of DRM onto our machines.It has been proven to run slower than its predecessor and has caused no end of grief to industry.
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oliverg



Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 800
Location: Melbourne, Australia

TV/Projector: Sony G90 X2 - Vidikron Vision 1


PostLink    Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vista is great, i've been using it since its first beta release

If you want to futureproof yourself, go Vista..

Every generation of Windows, there are a lot of people that resist upgrading. Back when Xp came out, there were cries of "2000 is better" ... "98 is better for gaming" and so on.. most of the same people are all using XP now

There is a slight learning curve with Vista and a PC with more grunt and memory is definately better - but we are living in an age where RAM costs $50 for a Gb.. PCs are becoming consumables

Alot of the Vista detractors are virgins talking about sexual issues Wink

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WanMan



Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10261



PostLink    Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ram is going for $25/GB. Very Happy

For instance, in today's Fry's Electronics newspaper ad SKU 5220687 is 4GB (2x2GB) of OCz PC6400 for $95 before rebate ($75 after MIR). Hey, I just got an OCz rebate in the mail. Smile

Taking a tangent for a moment ...

5218927 is a KWorld $35 USB ATSC tuner (no MIR), 4795159 Seagate 500GB for $97 (no MIR).

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overclkr



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 4227



PostLink    Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jask wrote:
Joust wrote:
overclkr wrote:
VISTA=BIG BROTHER.

Trust me......

Cliffy


how do you know this??

Ben, I have an ATI 6800GTX I don't need.



Start here:
http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html

then here:
http://www.techworld.com/opsys/news/index.cfm?newsid=7675

still interested?
http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=vista%3D+big+brother&meta=

In short this is a ponderous resource sucking revision that does VERY little for the end user, but offloads the work of DRM onto our machines.It has been proven to run slower than its predecessor and has caused no end of grief to industry.


Yep, even worse is the elimination of the Hardware Abstraction Layer. Your Drivers are now no longer able to talk directly to your hardware which is one of the main reasons why performance is affected the way it is. A perfect example is Creative's "EAX" extensions for games no longer work without a "emulator" in between the driver and the card itself.

I've been using Vista since early beta and XP walks ALL OVER it even to this day. Eventually we will not have a choice but to use Vista unless there is some third party development for XP when MS stops supporting XP, but that does not mean that Vista is "great". It's BIG BROTHER and MS is counting the days when they can control what YOU can do with YOUR pc.

Mark my words. After 10 years in IT, I have to say that this is the worst disquise of controlling YOUR content that I have ever seen. Evil or Very Mad

Cliff
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benareeno



Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 1614
Location: ottawa, canada


PostLink    Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Barry,

isn't that an NVidia??

Chris,

which ATI card will do the trick?

Ben
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garyfritz



Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 10614
Location: Fort Collins, CO


PostLink    Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

overclkr wrote:
It's BIG BROTHER and MS is counting the days when they can control what YOU can do with YOUR pc.
Mark my words. After 10 years in IT, I have to say that this is the worst disquise of controlling YOUR content that I have ever seen. Evil or Very Mad

Yup. Try googling on something like "vista drm truth" and you'll find all sorts of instructional / scary writeups.

http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html was one of the first warning shots, but many people have written about it since then.

Vista is not only a bloated and inefficient/ineffective OS. It's also Microsoft's greatest bid for world domination. Or at least domination of most of the computers in the world, and all the content on them.
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jask



Joined: 17 Mar 2006
Posts: 8842
Location: kamloops BC


PostLink    Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oliverg wrote:
Vista is great, i've been using it since its first beta release

If you want to futureproof yourself, go Vista..

Every generation of Windows, there are a lot of people that resist upgrading. Back when Xp came out, there were cries of "2000 is better" ... "98 is better for gaming" and so on.. most of the same people are all using XP now

There is a slight learning curve with Vista and a PC with more grunt and memory is definately better - but we are living in an age where RAM costs $50 for a Gb.. PCs are becoming consumables

Alot of the Vista detractors are virgins talking about sexual issues Wink


Glad you are Happy
If your vision of the future includes the direction Microsoft is taking your computing experience,enjoy the ride.
When XP came out it was buggy and drivers were a huge problem the roll-out was a glorified consumer Beta testing period and lots of industry waited a LONG time to cross over. Many of the same people you are talking about are now using other OS,(I wish I had bought more Apple stock) and even Microsoft has accepted that Linux is here to stay.
PC have been consumables from day 1, the problem is that" a pc with more grunt and memory" is not "better" it is an operational requirment for this ponderous piece of clutter,how is this better? if the goal of having a computer is to do more work in less time how does surrendering ANY portion of your processor to police the rights of others make this a better OS?

I am happy staying a virgin, and the fanboys can keep taking it from behind..
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Tom.W



Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 6637



PostLink    Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Long winded but an interesting video blog...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HELrxLdP85c
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator


Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 25451
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G


PostLink    Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 1:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

benareeno wrote:
Barry,

isn't that an NVidia??

Chris,

which ATI card will do the trick?

Ben


Lots of people are having luck with the ATi 2600HD or 2600Pro cards. About $95 - $120

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nuttall_chris



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 832
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada


PostLink    Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

benareeno wrote:
Barry,

isn't that an NVidia??

Chris,

which ATI card will do the trick?

Ben


I'm using an ATI 2600XT and I paid $99 at Future Shop a few weeks ago.

Chris
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Mark_A_W



Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 3068
Location: Sunny Melbourne Australia


PostLink    Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

XP works fine.

My 2600XT works fine too, with two catches:

1. No Gamma control in Powerdvd, and the AVIVO one doesn't work for Powerdvd.

2. Slight Reclock bug if you run an interlaced res- means I have to use SPDIF, instead of Analogue.

The ATi Hardware Accel works amazingly well, if you need it. Well, in my experience you will have to use Hardware Accel to play Transformers, as Powerdvd does not seem to be able to perform IVTC on MPEG4-AVC (it can on VC-1). The only way to get smooth playback is with Hardware Accel enabled and then the video card does the IVTC.
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oliverg



Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 800
Location: Melbourne, Australia

TV/Projector: Sony G90 X2 - Vidikron Vision 1


PostLink    Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 4:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jask wrote:
oliverg wrote:
Vista is great, i've been using it since its first beta release

If you want to futureproof yourself, go Vista..

Every generation of Windows, there are a lot of people that resist upgrading. Back when Xp came out, there were cries of "2000 is better" ... "98 is better for gaming" and so on.. most of the same people are all using XP now

There is a slight learning curve with Vista and a PC with more grunt and memory is definately better - but we are living in an age where RAM costs $50 for a Gb.. PCs are becoming consumables

Alot of the Vista detractors are virgins talking about sexual issues Wink


Glad you are Happy
If your vision of the future includes the direction Microsoft is taking your computing experience,enjoy the ride.
When XP came out it was buggy and drivers were a huge problem the roll-out was a glorified consumer Beta testing period and lots of industry waited a LONG time to cross over. Many of the same people you are talking about are now using other OS,(I wish I had bought more Apple stock) and even Microsoft has accepted that Linux is here to stay.
PC have been consumables from day 1, the problem is that" a pc with more grunt and memory" is not "better" it is an operational requirment for this ponderous piece of clutter,how is this better? if the goal of having a computer is to do more work in less time how does surrendering ANY portion of your processor to police the rights of others make this a better OS?

I am happy staying a virgin, and the fanboys can keep taking it from behind..


Virgin = no experience at all = therefore totally not qualified to make any worthwhile or meaningful statements regarding the subject matter.. if you had spent any real time using Vista, you would realise it isn't anywhere nearly as bad as so many "virgins" are making it out to be.. I haven't had a single crash in over a year using Vista and I push my machine to its limits

"bloating" is only a problem if your hardware is inadequate and is totally over stated as a reason to not upgrade

Linux is for geeks and embedded applications

as for DRM .. another totally over stated reason to not use Vista

By your reasoning about "better" machines, we would all be using Apple //es and Wordstar now .. !

Don't believe the FUD that all the virgins are spreading Smile If "taking it from behind" means having a fully functional, stable and futureproofed OS , then yeah - that's me and a lot of other Vista users

You're welcome to Lunux.. or better yet, why don't you go back to using Windows 95? Its not bloated and has about the same level of driver support

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jask



Joined: 17 Mar 2006
Posts: 8842
Location: kamloops BC


PostLink    Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 7:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oliverg wrote:

Virgin = no experience at all = therefore totally not qualified to make any worthwhile or meaningful statements regarding the subject matter.. if you had spent any real time using Vista,

You kill me,share your wanton wisdom.I have used it and find it unclear that the "improvments" amount to better user experience or system performance

oliverg wrote:
you would realise it isn't anywhere nearly as bad as so many "virgins" are making it out to be..

Sounds like a line from "Deliverance"!! seriously-I do not find it "that bad" but when I do my personal cost/benefit it is -not -benefiting me more.

oliverg wrote:
I haven't had a single crash in over a year using Vista

The ultimate goal of all Windoze OS owners,there are a lot of people having less luck than you

oliverg wrote:
and I push my machine to its limits

Not me, I use it to keep my toes warm. Does it not bother you that significant system resources on your system are being allocated to monitor your use of your computer and its contents,for the benefit of others? Seriously,I do not ask this lightly I want to know your opinion on the subject of OS enforced DRM.

oliverg wrote:
"bloating" is only a problem if your hardware is inadequate and is totally over stated as a reason to not upgrade

This sounds like it was written in Redmond! and the "minor issue" of the new and improved product needing more resources to do less work in the same amount of time?

Linux is for geeks and embedded applications

oliverg wrote:
as for DRM .. another totally over stated reason to not use Vista

Myself and at least one other person in the whole universe (excluding Redmond) disagree..

oliverg wrote:
By your reasoning about "better" machines, we would all be using Apple //es and Wordstar now .. !

please elaborate,if you like talking paperclips and pop-ups more power to you,I do not.

oliverg wrote:
Don't believe the FUD that all the virgins are spreading Smile

you mean the stuff about Vista being better? did you read any of those links?

oliverg wrote:
If "taking it from behind" means having a fully functional, stable and futureproofed OS , then yeah - that's me and a lot of other Vista users

"futureproof" is newspeak, the future is 18 months from now,and your hardware is obsolete. If this is futureproof will it be the last OS you buy?of course not.
oliverg wrote:
You're welcome to Lunux.. or better yet, why don't you go back to using Windows 95? Its not bloated and has about the same level of driver support

" Thank you Ladies and Gentleman! Oliver will be appearing here at the Redmond Travellodge all week long,enjoy your drinks,the next show is in an Hour!! another big round of applause for our sponsor Microsoft"
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oliverg



Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 800
Location: Melbourne, Australia

TV/Projector: Sony G90 X2 - Vidikron Vision 1


PostLink    Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jask wrote:
Thank you Ladies and Gentleman! Oliver will be appearing here at the Redmond Travellodge all week long,enjoy your drinks,the next show is in an Hour!! another big round of applause for our sponsor Microsoft"


You have zero (self admitted) experience with Vista, but you seemingly know all about it?

Virgin Smile

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