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RTC2200: plug and play?
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zaphod




Joined: 16 Jun 2006
Posts: 2002
Location: Cloverdale


PostLink    Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:04 pm    Post subject: RTC2200: plug and play? Reply with quote


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i want to use my RTC2200 to add gamma control on the RGB stream. here is how i have it plugged in


RGB scaler output -- 5 wires in ceiling --- RTC2200 --- NECXG

to do this i have a pair of 6" VGA->BNC cables

5 BNC female -> DB15male
and
5 BNC male -> DB15male.

this allows me to plug the RTC2200 into the XG and plug the cable (the used to plug into the XG) into the RTC2200

without the RTC2200 i have the XG synced and converged to 1280x1024. i shut down the XG, insert the RTC2200 (plug in it Smile and turn on the XG. i then get a completely black screen with the message "new signal". not a misconverged image, just black screen.

i would have thought that the RTC2200, in pass-thru mode, would have been plug and play and that i'd just insert it into the stream and bob's your CEO. what did i misunderstand?
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kal
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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 16910
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56


PostLink    Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The RTC2200 allows for imagine shifting and allows you to play with the size. If you change these enough your projector will likely see a different 'signal' and require a new memory block.

Kal

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zaphod




Joined: 16 Jun 2006
Posts: 2002
Location: Cloverdale


PostLink    Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
The RTC2200 allows for imagine shifting and allows you to play with the size. If you change these enough your projector will likely see a different 'signal' and require a new memory block.

Kal


well i haven't touched any trimpots [yet] but perhaps the out of box settings are already different enough Smile

but i'm not seeing a shifted/distorted/sized image. i'm not seeing any image at all. Sad
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kal
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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 16910
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56


PostLink    Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zaphod wrote:
kal wrote:
The RTC2200 allows for imagine shifting and allows you to play with the size. If you change these enough your projector will likely see a different 'signal' and require a new memory block.

Kal


well i haven't touched any trimpots [yet] but perhaps the out of box settings are already different enough Smile

Yes, possibly different enough from whathever you have set up from out of your scaler.

Quote:
but i'm not seeing a shifted/distorted/sized image. i'm not seeing any image at all. Sad

Does the XG require that you store or set up a memory block before you see anything? I can't remember... it's been a while since I've had one.

Hopefully Kim will chime in with some thoughts/ideas as well.

Kal

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zaphod




Joined: 16 Jun 2006
Posts: 2002
Location: Cloverdale


PostLink    Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
Does the XG require that you store or set up a memory block before you see anything? I can't remember... it's been a while since I've had one.


no, if i send it a new signal it presents a horribly converged image. it's like watching fantasia when on acid. i would imagine.

kal wrote:
Hopefully Kim will chime in with some thoughts/ideas as well.

Kal


here's two that are hoping Smile
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kal
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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 16910
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56


PostLink    Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you have a computer monitor or other display with RGB input that you can use to test out the RTC2200?

I do remember with my RTC2200, if I turned some of the pots enough, you could reduce some of the settings enough such that the projector could no longer sync properly. This is likely the problem. XG's are also a bit fussy about small porch settings IIRC.

Check out the manual and start tweaking some of the pots.

Kal

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zaphod




Joined: 16 Jun 2006
Posts: 2002
Location: Cloverdale


PostLink    Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hmmm, good thoughts. i'll try that. lots of fun. i was hoping that pass-through would be unaltered by all the pots save for gamma. 'course i was also hoping for whirled peas.
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dbaisey




Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 821
Location: Southern Cal LA / Seattle WA


PostLink    Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zap,
Hit the info button and see what the signal properties say or you might have sync reversed or sync polarity is throwing it off. The 2200 has H shift so that may also be off or it could be phase in the projector. First see if your signal properties are different. If so do a signal entry under temporary then phase it.

Im betting right now its sitting at the top of the entry list whatever that may be. Doug
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zaphod




Joined: 16 Jun 2006
Posts: 2002
Location: Cloverdale


PostLink    Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cool idea Doug, i'll take a look at the info panel next try at this.
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greg_mitch




Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 5321



PostLink    Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is there a chance that you have a component input plugged in as well that is set to a different resolution? I can't remember, but I thought the component input took priority and the VGA only works for pass through if it doesnt sense a component input.
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kal
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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 16910
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56


PostLink    Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 3:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

greg_mitch wrote:
Is there a chance that you have a component input plugged in as well that is set to a different resolution? I can't remember, but I thought the component input took priority and the VGA only works for pass through if it doesnt sense a component input.

You have it backwards. The RGB input has priority if both are on. See the manual and the FAQ:

"Auto-switches between inputs (if no sync is present on the RGB input than the component input is selected)."

Kal

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beun




Joined: 28 Jun 2006
Posts: 676



PostLink    Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 3:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zaphod,

Did you receive your RTC2200 recently? I am not quite sure what sync the XG needs but the new batch of RTC2200 has a sync amplitude of a bit more than 1Vpp in 75 Ohm and 2.5V in a high impedance. If your XG has a 1V setting for the sync you will have to use that.

With all settings unchanged from shipment the sync through the RTC2200 from the RGB bypass is transparent, it will not change the width or position.


Edit:

Looking through the manual the impedance should be set to 75 Ohm. Also are the H and V sync hooked up correctly?

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Tom.W




Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 6637



PostLink    Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 5:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mine worked perfectly out of the box but this was with a Barco. What are your sync settings ?
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zaphod




Joined: 16 Jun 2006
Posts: 2002
Location: Cloverdale


PostLink    Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

beun wrote:
Zaphod,

Did you receive your RTC2200 recently? I am not quite sure what sync the XG needs but the new batch of RTC2200 has a sync amplitude of a bit more than 1Vpp in 75 Ohm and 2.5V in a high impedance. If your XG has a 1V setting for the sync you will have to use that.

With all settings unchanged from shipment the sync through the RTC2200 from the RGB bypass is transparent, it will not change the width or position.


Edit:

Looking through the manual the impedance should be set to 75 Ohm. Also are the H and V sync hooked up correctly?


Kim,

yes, i received mine in the latest batch. (Lance Bailey in Wa state).
i'm still learning about sync and so on and i just don't know what you mean by that. do i need to adjust the impedence or not?

signed,
confused.
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beun




Joined: 28 Jun 2006
Posts: 676



PostLink    Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 6:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

While looking through the manual of the XG I found two settings for the sync input impedance: 75 Ohm and Hi-Z. According to the manual, the H-Z setting is to be used for TTL level sync signals, conversely the 75 Ohm setting than should be used for the 1Vpp sync. Can you check wich stting you have on your XG?

Kal do you have any comments on my assumptions here?

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zaphod




Joined: 16 Jun 2006
Posts: 2002
Location: Cloverdale


PostLink    Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i just tried the rtc2200 again, and same results, but i snapped the 3 source info info pages.

page 1
Code:
NAME

INPUT TERMINAL               INPUT A
INPUT SOURCE

VIDEO MODE                           RGB
FREQUENCY                            +h = 14.80 KHz
                                                            +v =  34.40

SYNC POLARITY                   HD (+)  VD (+)


page 2
Code:
SYNC CONTROL                      AUTO
                                                             G-SYNC

COUNTER                                     0
DISPLAY TIME                          0000:00

SOURCE LOCK                            OFF

AKB                                                    OFF

G-Y MATRIX


page 3
Code:
POSITION                                       WIDE

FONT                                                 NORMAL

APERTURE                                    MANUAL
                                                               LEVEL 1

SYNC TERMINATION           75 Ohm

AFC                                                    NORMAL
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beun




Joined: 28 Jun 2006
Posts: 676



PostLink    Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 6:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The default sync polarity of the RTC2200 is negative. I am not sure if the info on page 1 shows the sync polarity as it is or how it is setup as. The sync termination looks correct.
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zaphod




Joined: 16 Jun 2006
Posts: 2002
Location: Cloverdale


PostLink    Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i unplugged the RTC2200 and took a look at the info pages again. on page one these change:

fh = 76 KHz
fv = 72 KHz

SYNC POLARITY HD(-) VD(-)

so, the frequencies go to more expected values and the sync polarity changes to neg.

to me, this says that the RTC2200 is outputting positive syncs and not negative syncs.
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dbaisey




Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 821
Location: Southern Cal LA / Seattle WA


PostLink    Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

zap,
You had some weird things going on here at first when its plugged in. 14.80 kHz x 34.40 Hz and its seeing it as sync on green instead of RGBHV separate sync. Thats less then video freq at 15.75 kHz. Something isn't right unless its not passing a signal


Then you have 76 kHz so that seems correct for 1280x1024 at 72 Hz. Its seeing neg neg sync. At that freq what does it say for sync? It should say separate. It's unplugged? Doug
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zaphod




Joined: 16 Jun 2006
Posts: 2002
Location: Cloverdale


PostLink    Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i'll check when i get back home. i don't remember what it said for sync.

it's starting to look like i'm cabling up the rtc2200 incorrectly, but i can match colours with the best of them Smile i wonder if i have a problem in one of the VGA-RGBHV cables that markertek sold me...

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