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Analog blendbox
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beun




Joined: 28 Jun 2006
Posts: 676



PostLink    Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 3:33 pm    Post subject: Analog blendbox Reply with quote


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I am finally going to do it, I have in principle figured out how to create an analog blend box but there is a lot of development work to do. When it all works out as envisioned it will have the following characteristics:

1) One RGB input and two RGB outputs (left projector & right projector)
2) Gamma correction on the input
3) Programmable blend curve (I have to figure out a cheap way)
4) Gain control on at least one output (to match up brightness)

The projectors must be capable to stretch half a picture to the full width of the tube, the sync of the left projector will be left alone but the right projector sync will be moved to the start of its half.

I will have to do some serious FPGA development for the control section and since I have not done that before it may take a while, any help will be greatly appreciated.


Kim

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tri_joel




Joined: 03 Jul 2007
Posts: 646
Location: Northern Virginia


PostLink    Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wicked! Put me on the list when your ready to take orders!
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Clarence




Joined: 08 Mar 2006
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PostLink    Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool!


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Clarence




Joined: 08 Mar 2006
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PostLink    Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

blend function


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kal
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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
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Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56


PostLink    Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tri_joel wrote:
Wicked! Put me on the list when your ready to take orders!


Just stay tuned to our newsletters: http://www.curtpalme.com/MailingList.shtm
It'll be announced there once it's shipping.

Kal

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Clarence




Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 3754
Location: Northern Virginia


PostLink    Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

These blend-o-matic mockups were from 3.5 years ago...


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Clarence




Joined: 08 Mar 2006
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PostLink    Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But now that 1080P is a reality, maybe the BNC version would be much better...


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Nashou66




Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16170
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kim, your taking on an extremely tough project there Good for you!!! I'll help Beta test it for you since i have belnd experience and soon will have my blend up an running so All i'll have to do is hopefully plug it in.

*Make sure it will accept all types of weird resolutions, i run 1064x800p to each PJ. Assume people will be using a scaler or PC behind your box
adding all types of porch setting and so on.

*If you could put in the software image shift per pixel/line in left right up and down directions.

*Adjustable blend zone size as some setups can use less or more depending on projector set up.

*Zoom function must be for horizontal and vertical individually and global (does both)

*Gamma for blend zone, then the gain control for the non blend zone each side would be best to
incorporate uneven fluctuations in wear over time of both PJ's.

*Possible Genlock of one output to the master output, this will help stabilize the PJ to each other.

I am sure there is more but i cant think now, once i start to re set up my blend more suggestions will arise.

Hope you make this work as it will be fun to test out.

And most important make it affordable, right now the rig i am running is a little under 4k so even a 4th of that it be nice and I am sue you'll do it for less.
But the RD work will be most costly especially writing the FPGA.

Good Luck KIM!!!!!

Athanasios

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Nashou66




Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16170
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clarence you nut Wink

KIM look at al the blend Info on the TV-One site for some info, you might pick something out you could use.

Athanasios

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beun




Joined: 28 Jun 2006
Posts: 676



PostLink    Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all the suggestions, I have not decided on the interface yet, but for a price the BNC could be an option (these things are expensive and take up a lot of room).

Clarence, I have bookmarked the website you took the images from.

Athanasios, It should be able to handle weird resolutions as it is a complete analog process, there is no digitizing of the signal anywhere. Since it is fully analog, there is no zooming or scaling, that has to be handled by the projector. The overlap and stuff is programmable but it probably a one time deal only, I still have to work out all the details. Since the two halves are from the same source they are automatically genlocked.

I will take a look at the TV-one site and if anyone here has some experience with Xilinx FPGA's please pipe up, I could use some help in that department.


Kim

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Nashou66




Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kim, I don't see how blending can be done without Zooming, the portion of the image to be blended is about or should be 10-15% past the half way point on either side of the center that gets pushed to the left or right side of the raster, actually that changes with a traditional Blend unit. So what I am trying to say is the center unzoomed is in the center of the half of the screen, to get that center to either side of the blend zone it needs to be zoomed and shifted I guess a VP before the Blend box that will zoom but you have to make sure one side "pushes" the image the left and the other side Pushes it to the right so the center of the Zoomed image that comes into the blend box is in the blend zone area and the corresponding edge is in its proper place.

I think I am confusing myself here Wink

Athanasios

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beun




Joined: 28 Jun 2006
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PostLink    Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The zooming (actually horizontal stretching) has to be performed by the projector, unless I do that in the digital domain I cannot change the timing.
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Nashou66




Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm, for a digital it be easy for that, it could be done with a CRT i guess but not sure what portion of the image is coming out from your box... if its the whole image then there would need to be a lot of horizontal size adjustment and phase adjustment in the PJ to horizontally stretch it to the correct aspect, just under half the image will have to be moved out of the raster on the corresponding sides. I definitely like to get a box to play with and test out, doing it all in an anolog domain will definitely be a challenge.

the way it is done with the Tv-One blend boxes is the image comes in native, then you set up the output resolution this is where your analog box can't scale it right? Then you select the Edge blend function and there you can zoom it or use the 1:1 pixel mapping that auto zooms it to the respective selected output resolution from the input resolution, that is how i do it, other wise you can manually select the zoom you need, its usually about 190% if using the full res, i ended up with 140% but now use the pixel mapping as its easier. I might be able to get you some loaners to have a for a few weeks to see how the whole process is done this way you'll know what obstacles you will have to over come. I think the Blending part and orientation you'll be able to get but the color control in the blend zone will be the hardest , even Tv-One is still working on this area to get perfection.

I am excited for you if this works.

Andre in Spain is a programer he might have some experience, his screen name here is Antorsea I think.

Athanasios

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beun




Joined: 28 Jun 2006
Posts: 676



PostLink    Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 2:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Athanasios

You are right, the visible picture is about 60% of the original width, the remaining black 40% has to be stretched in the projector to fill the raster. I am not a CRT expert so someone else has to chime in if that is a problem.

I took a look at the TV-one products and those are digital scalers (and a bit more expensive too).

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Nashou66




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PostLink    Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 2:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kim, what would happen in the CRT is that if you expand the image too much it goes off the edge of the tube face and that is not good as it can explode the tube.
Also on most CRT's using the Phase control to shift the image will fold over the raster so the image begins to come back on the opposite side of the tube face.
There has to be a way for your box to display only 55-65% of the image, have some shift control and not change the aspect too much( the PJ can stretch to some extent as long as it does not make the image go over the tube face edge.

Athanasios

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beun




Joined: 28 Jun 2006
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PostLink    Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 2:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The signal going over the tube edge is black (no signal), if that is a problem than this idea will not work.
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MikeEby




Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 5238
Location: Osceola, Indiana


PostLink    Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 2:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The idea of a blend is to reduce bandwidth requirements. If you are just offsetting the image I think there would be no bandwidth savings. Perhaps I'm not understanding the application.

Mike

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Nashou66




Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

if its black then it would be ok, it can not be any scan of that section.

You also have to be able to turn the blend area on and off so the two Pj's can be converged in the over lap zone.

Athanasios

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Clarence




Joined: 08 Mar 2006
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Location: Northern Virginia


PostLink    Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

beun wrote:
The signal going over the tube edge is black (no signal), if that is a problem than this idea will not work.


Ahh, so you want to just blank out half the picture, but still have the full scan beyond the tube's phosphor face (outlined in red)...

No, I don't think you can scan beyond the tube face, even if that part of the picture is completely black.



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beun




Joined: 28 Jun 2006
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PostLink    Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 3:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I though the idea was to get much wider aspect ratios. Instead of using only a small fraction of your tube you divide it up over two projectors so that each projects something much more like 4:3 aspect ratio thereby nicely filling up your tube.
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