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Big, honking subwoofer drivers - where can I get 'em cheap?
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AnalogRocks
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Joined: 08 Mar 2006
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Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

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PostLink    Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 6:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote


        Register to remove this ad. It's free!
Well you'd need 3 or 4 guys to steal it that's for sure.

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WanMan




Joined: 19 Mar 2006
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PostLink    Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not into mobile audio, but I never considered that area to be one with fidelity in mind on the subwoofer focus. I mean, they are more into the transduction of physical shaking in a show-it-off kind of breaking the glass kind of exposure. Whoop-de-fricken-doo.

Now, can we get back to the home audio aspect? Smile

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perisoft




Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 2920
Location: Ithaca, NY


PostLink    Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WanMan, on the other hand, low quality in those kind of drivers will manifest primarily as wacky response curves, and if it's wildly overpowered you can flatten it out in software. Lots of headroom gives you options for getting good quality.

I wouldn't necessarily want to try that for mids/highs, but most theater bass isn't going to be incredibly sensitive. In fact, I'm inclined to wonder if 'pro' theater subs aren't tuned specifically to 'pop' at a given rumble frequency, because most of the rumble in modern movies seems to be at the same frequency. Anybody ever checked that?
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perisoft




Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 2920
Location: Ithaca, NY


PostLink    Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

(Oh, and I just have to note that the dumbest use of bass rumble in a recent movie is in Pirates of the Caribbean 2, where a sailing ship goes by and emits an enormous, galactic-battle-cruiser-like roar from the subs. WTF? Suspension of disbelief is well and good, but come on, people, it's a wind-powered boat! Razz)
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Z-Photo




Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 2753
Location: Huntsville - Alabama


PostLink    Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK - you guys are on the offically CRAZY list now.

Smile

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perisoft




Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 2920
Location: Ithaca, NY


PostLink    Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would have thought that being enthusiasts of twenty-year-old projectio ntechnology which exchanges improved contrast for hundred-hour setup times and boat-anchor weights would already have qualified us, but... Very Happy
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ecrabb
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Joined: 13 Mar 2006
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Location: Utah

TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010


PostLink    Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

perisoft wrote:
In fact, I'm inclined to wonder if 'pro' theater subs aren't tuned specifically to 'pop' at a given rumble frequency, because most of the rumble in modern movies seems to be at the same frequency. Anybody ever checked that?

Pro-stuff is usually designed to either have as flat a response curve as possible, or if it's designed for a specific space, it's tuned to be flat with a certain amount of gain from the room, or it's tuned to be as reasonably flat as possible in-room with parametric EQ. Depending on the room, just the location of the sub and the listener can have a profound effect on the response.

I have some work to do in my room, in fact. In my first row, response is pretty flat and sounds pretty good. In the second row, I have a pretty healthy node centered around 60hz that gets obnoxious with the right sound - a bass guitar track, for instance. Then, back behind the second row, where boundary effect is in full swing, it sounds like my subs are at least twice as big and powerful as they really are. I really need to do some bass trapping and move the subs around a little to get a little flatter response from all the seats.

It's been a long time since I've seen the thread, but there used to be a bunch of freaks over at AVS that did spectrum plots on their favorite LFE scenes to show where in the frequency spectrum the LFE are concentrated in certain movies and scenes. Some of them post the plots, then report on how their subs and room sounded during that scene at insane volumes... Some even measure the SPL they attained. There are some funny anecdotes about falling pictures, rattling dishes, pissed-off neighbors, freaked-out pets, etc. If you look at the results of some of their work, there's a whole series of movies and scenes with lots of material at insane frequencies, but all over the place. Sound designers all have their way to do things, so LFE in some movies are actually quite different from others.

If the rumble in movies all sounds the same to you, it might be because the equipment you've been listening to isn't the best or your room needs some work. I have to admit, I cringed a little when you started talking about using MRI amplifiers and whatever massive drivers you could get your hands on. Some people go to insane lengths to get as flat of a response as humanly possibly with the cleanest, most articulate sound they can possibly eek out of their equipment and room. I don't mean to be critical and don't take this the wrong way, but you sound like you're just trying to build something to shake the floor and rattle the windows - sound quality be damned.

SC
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papalek




Joined: 08 Mar 2006
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PostLink    Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some of these are really good and reasonably priced.

http://www.shredmuzic.com/category_s/47.htm

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papalek




Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 1537
Location: Longs SC


PostLink    Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRT_Ben wrote:
Heh...

Madison Sound ExecutionerX 21" drivers - my brother has two of 'em - they come up on the 'bay from time to time, and you can usually get a PAIR for about ~$300 delivered. Let's just say that they rock the house.

Specs, and pictures:

-200oz magnet structure
-4" 8ohm voice coil
-cast frame
-1000W RMS/2000W Peak
-18mm Xmax

Here's the Craigslist ad that I pulled the pics from, it's one for $100:

http://raleigh.craigslist.org/ele/432188966.html



Well this just arrived today. Very Happy It cost me $120.00 shipped.



All I can say is this thing is f*cking HUGE. I mounted it in the riser for the back seats. I have it hooked up to only 250 watts. I would NOT want to see what 1000 watts would do! Shocked We watched transformers and you could FEEL the bass in the whole room. It was vibrating the FRONT row. Shocked Very Happy It is not boomy either. Thumbs Up I have to adjust it to play well with everything else,but I do not think I will need 2. Mr. Green

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Mark_A_W




Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 3068
Location: Sunny Melbourne Australia


PostLink    Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOL, yes - the bigger the driver you have (or more of them) the SMALLER the amplifier you need.

My four 15mm Xmax drivers move about 3mm with normal "Loud" usage = massive overkill. And use about 50 watts tops.


If you have a tiny driver (like that stupid Sunfire thing), then you need KILOWATTS (a stupid waste of power), and you get thermal compression anyway.
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WanMan




Joined: 19 Mar 2006
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PostLink    Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom, doesn't one risk cone warping when moving to increasing large cone sizes? Not defending the Sunfire (Power Plant Sold Separately), but I always thought this was a reason to shy away from drivers above the 12-15" range.
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CRT_Ben




Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 1684
Location: Northern Virginia


PostLink    Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

papalek wrote:
Well this just arrived today. Very Happy It cost me $120.00 shipped.

All I can say is this thing is f*cking HUGE. I mounted it in the riser for the back seats. I have it hooked up to only 250 watts. I would NOT want to see what 1000 watts would do! Shocked We watched transformers and you could FEEL the bass in the whole room. It was vibrating the FRONT row. Shocked Very Happy It is not boomy either. Thumbs Up I have to adjust it to play well with everything else,but I do not think I will need 2. Mr. Green


Muhahaha...another convert well on his way to brown-inducing bass Thumbs Up

Now get a decent amp on that thing, my bro is running a Mackie M2600 Mr. Green
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Curt Palme
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Joined: 08 Mar 2006
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TV/Projector: All of them!


PostLink    Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WanMan wrote:
Tom, doesn't one risk cone warping when moving to increasing large cone sizes? Not defending the Sunfire (Power Plant Sold Separately), but I always thought this was a reason to shy away from drivers above the 12-15" range.


No, not from what I've seen. Turbosound used a 24" woofer in their commercial cabinets with no issues. and Fostex and EV made 30" woofers. I used to have two of the Fostex ones, but gave them away in a moment of stupidity.

http://hometheater.home.att.net/longago.htm
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WanMan




Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10273



PostLink    Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess then I am a little confused. Moving a cone within a response time one wishes wouldn't be easy (I thought) without cone warping or, if the cone is rigid enough, sufficient power. Even that 21" suggests 1 kW.
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Moose




Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 788
Location: Minnesota


PostLink    Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of the dumbest subwoofer drivers ever made was the Hartley 24" with a one-inch voice coil. Who in the world would design something that asinine?
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papalek




Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 1537
Location: Longs SC


PostLink    Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WanMan wrote:
I guess then I am a little confused. Moving a cone within a response time one wishes wouldn't be easy (I thought) without cone warping or, if the cone is rigid enough, sufficient power. Even that 21" suggests 1 kW.


It does not suggest 1 kw to drive it. That figure is how much it will handle CONTINUOSLY before melting the voice coil.

The 4" voice coil in this is large enough to push from farther out on the cone. Pluss the cone is very rigid and it has the accordian style surround. That is what makes it not sound "boomy". The bass is tight and solid.

I may put a larger amp on it in the future but for now it really rocks the room. Presently the back row has way to much FEEL from it. But maybe my guests will like it that way Mr. Green Thumbs Up

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Curt Palme
CRT Tech



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24296
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TV/Projector: All of them!


PostLink    Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Funny, Fosgate came up with a unique solution to overcome overexcursion in car woofers. They put a metal band at the top of the voice coil assembly, so it in essence acted as a shorting ring when it went too far into the frame assembly. I'm sure it saved a few coils from being bashed against the bottom of the magnet gap, but can you imagine what it did to the distortion curve?

Then again, those that need 1000 watt subs in the car don't have golden ears anyways.
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txsmoke




Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 31
Location: Murphy, TX, 75094 (N of Dallas)


PostLink    Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Consider mine another vote for IB. Great sound and high WAF if it's possible in the house.

Mike
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