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Tom.W



Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 6637



PostLink    Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 3:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote


        Register to remove this ad. It's free!
How many lumen ?
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achase



Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Posts: 113
Location: West Hartford

TV/Projector: Christie 4k DCI


PostLink    Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 3:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

34,000
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Tom.W



Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 6637



PostLink    Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 3:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That should do it ... Wink
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achase



Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Posts: 113
Location: West Hartford

TV/Projector: Christie 4k DCI


PostLink    Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 3:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not really for Dolby 3D!
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jask



Joined: 17 Mar 2006
Posts: 8869
Location: kamloops BC


PostLink    Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 4:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

excellent.... you can also use it to kill vampires and correct macular degeneration Mr. Green when you are not playing Call of Duty or watching movies.
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator


Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 25459
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G


PostLink    Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 4:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wanna play Space Invaders on it! Mr. Green
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CRT.

HD done right!
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achase



Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Posts: 113
Location: West Hartford

TV/Projector: Christie 4k DCI


PostLink    Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jask wrote:
excellent.... you can also use it to kill vampires and correct macular degeneration Mr. Green when you are not playing Call of Duty or watching movies.


That's an "off-label" use not sanctioned by Christie
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Tom.W



Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 6637



PostLink    Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

achase wrote:
Not really for Dolby 3D!


Arnold are you saying it's not bright enough for 3D ? Confused
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achase



Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Posts: 113
Location: West Hartford

TV/Projector: Christie 4k DCI


PostLink    Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I not saying that exactly. There are many (commercial) 3D systems out there, each one with it's pluses and minuses. The controlling factor here is really the screen, with the screen material as the item in particular.

Since my screen is a Stewart Microperf, with a matte material (Gain=1), it is not suitable for any 3D system that relies on polarization to achieve 3D. Thus the "RealD" and "Master Image" systems will not work for me as they need a "silver" material screen to maintain discrete left-eye/right-eye circular polarity. The main problem with a silver screen is that it does not provide a uniform lumen level across it's surface, resulting in hot-spots and dim areas. Likewise, the IMAX 3D system (even if it were available) uses linear polarization.

That leaves two choices: The XPAND system or Dolby 3D. Since the XPAND system uses active shutter glasses, one has to deal with a heavier set of glasses, flash inducing headaches, recharging and synchronization issues, as well as licensing issues and ongoing payments as I am dealing with more than 100 seats. That pretty much leaves the Dolby 3D system as the de-facto choice since it works just fine with a non-silver screen (it uses a spectral differentiation technique).

In my experience, the Dolby 3D system provides the absolutely best 3D, with both colorimetry and image sharpness superior to the others. The glasses are available with real glass lenses, and there are no ongoing fees. As you know, there is no such thing as a "free lunch", and the downside of the Dolby system is it's low efficiency.

ALL of the 3D systems have incredibly high parasitic losses. They range from a "best" case RealD 3D XL efficiency of 28% to a "worst case" Dolby 3D of 10% (!). The polarization systems that use a high-gain silver screen can make up some of the loss, but in my case the only arrows in my quiver are lumens.

The theatrical "standard" for cinema projection is 14 foot-lamberts. Most theaters can do this with 2D, although many choose to run their lamps at lower levels to gain additional lamp life, since these things are VERY expensive to replace. 3D is a whole other beast. Many theaters typically manage only 3 - 4 FL or so, with 6 Fl the target now (assuming a theater can do that).

My goal was to operate at about 25 Fl for 2D (not a problem for me), and 14 Fl for 3D, but the best I'm going to be able to do for 3D will be about 8 Fl.

To do what I want to do for 3D light levels would require a 12KW lamp, and that's not possible to do with this projector, so until the laser projectors arrive, 8 Fl it is.


Last edited by achase on Fri Nov 22, 2013 1:12 am; edited 4 times in total
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator


Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah

TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010


PostLink    Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

achase wrote:
ALL of the 3D systems have incredibly high parasitic losses. They range from a "best" case RealD 3D XL efficiency of 28% to a "worst case" Dolby 3D of 10% (!). The polarization systems that use a high-gain silver screen can make up some of the loss, so in my case the only arrows in my quiver are lumens.

The theatrical "standard" for cinema projection is 14 foot-lamberts. Most theaters can do this with 2D, although many choose to run their lamps at lower levels to gain additional lamp life, since these things are VERY expensive to replace. 3D is a whole other beast. Many theaters typically manage only 3 - 4 FL or so, with 6 Fl the target now (assuming a theater can do that).

Exactly, Arnold. This is exactly why I'm not as big of a fan of 3D (stereo to be more precise) as I wish I could be. I love the theory, and it can be fun occasionally, but in practice it just isn't what it could/should be.

If anybody here is ever watching a 3D presentation, for the love of retinal candy, whatever you do, DO NOT lift up your glasses and look without. If you do, the picture will be two images overlaid in a blurry mess, but your first thought will be, "Oh my! Look at all that beautifully vivid color and eye-popping contrast!" Then, you put your glasses back on get used to the dead, lifeless picture you're going to look at for the rest of the movie.

Regards,
SC
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achase



Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Posts: 113
Location: West Hartford

TV/Projector: Christie 4k DCI


PostLink    Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
"Oh my! Look at all that beautifully vivid color


Normally you would be correct, but with the Dolby system, if you lifted your glasses you'd see offset images, both of which would not look right with screwed up colors. Putting the glasses back on would normalize things. I would agree with your comments regarding the light levels, however.
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator


Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah

TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010


PostLink    Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

achase wrote:
Quote:
"Oh my! Look at all that beautifully vivid color


Normally you would be correct, but with the Dolby system, if you lifted your glasses you'd see offset images, both of which would not look right with screwed up colors. Putting the glasses back on would normalize things. I would agree with your comments regarding the light levels, however.


Yes... Sorry, I was referring to RealD and/or active stereo like I have in my own HT.

SC
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stefuel



Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 3352
Location: Green Harbor MA USA


PostLink    Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

achase wrote:
I went with a Christie Digital Cinema projector. The throw distance is 45'. The lens is a 1.31-1.85 prime zoom lens. I went with the 'High Contrast' series rather than the 'High Brightness' ones. I'm not sure who makes their lenses, but I thought I saw "Konica Minolta" on one of the pictures.


I hope it comes with a slick remote Wink

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Chip
A Barco is only a AmPro with training wheels

Card carrying member of the AVS chain gang.
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achase



Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Posts: 113
Location: West Hartford

TV/Projector: Christie 4k DCI


PostLink    Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stefuel wrote:


I hope it comes with a slick remote Wink


Don't worry, it doesn't come with ANY remote... Crying or Very sad

There is an attached touch-screen to control it, but all functions are also on a web interface. Because every piece of commercial theater gear has both General Purpose Inputs as well as GPO's, setting up completely automated playlists is easy to do. Literally one push-button can dim the lights, open the curtains, start the trailers, and play off of the IMB or Blu-Ray player. Why do you think most theater projection booths are without operators these days?

I may keep a bunch of old remotes by my seat for comfort, however.
Very Happy
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Tom.W



Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 6637



PostLink    Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 3:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So Arnold how is that new Digital working out ?
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Spanky Ham



Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5634
Location: Comedy Central


PostLink    Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shocking that Tom hasn't updated this in almost two years.

Arnold can probably go a little longer with this light valve, but Barco has a new laser DLP that puts out up to 56k lumens. It costs half a mill and has sh$tty on/off cr, but the picture does look good.
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Shane32



Joined: 26 Jul 2017
Posts: 1



PostLink    Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

achase wrote:

The screen is 26' wide by 14.6' high. The original design (and existing capability) called for a 28' wide screen with a 6" black border on all sides, but Stewart could not build a microperf that large. As a result, we were limited to 26' wide and I increased the black border size to 18" all around. If some day a 28' screen becomes available, I just need to replace the 18" borders with a 6" border to install it.

I think we are getting about 22 foot lamberts off the screen.


Arnold,

Not sure if you're still looking for a seamless 28' wide screen, but if you are, have you thought about a woven screen? Severtson makes woven screens up to 15'10" tall, which would equal just about 28' wide for a 16x9 ratio. It's a "4K" weave, very fine, so you don't compromise visually. And acoustically the response curve is extremely flat - much more than even the micro-perf screens. We have a 34'x14' screen (2.39 ratio) and we selected the SAT-4K material due to the enhanced acoustic properties. The SAT-4K has a 1.18 gain, so you might prefer their TAT-4K screen (0.93 gain), which is a grey color for enhanced contrast. The enhanced contrast, even if you don't "want" it for normal use, could be utilized for HDR blu rays by running the video through a Radiance Pro scaler which can (I believe) adjust the contrast properly based on if the source is SDR or HDR.

If you do switch to a woven screen, you'll need the front speakers equalizer adjustments re-calibrated to eliminate the microperf compensation, which isn't necessary for a woven screen. And you might adjust the brightness of 2D content to be sure it hits your target foot-lambert level. The only thing I foresee you sacrificing on is the brightness during 3D movies -- so if you're at 8fL now, you'd be around 7.5fL after switching a 1.0 gain screen to a 0.93 gain screen. (Or go with the SAT-4K to increase from 8fL to 9.5fL.) I also do not know if there are any issues with Dolby 3D on a woven or grey screen, but I don't see why there would be.

I can say that I am extremely satisfied with our Severtson SAT-4K screen, and if you switch, I believe you would be as well.

One question: Are you able to feed 4K blu rays into your Christie? How? Any insight would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Shane
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donaldk



Joined: 17 Jun 2008
Posts: 305



PostLink    Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom.W wrote:
This stuff is not hard to find...

http://www.electroniccinemaservice.com/ila_operator_manuals.htm


It is now, the posted links are all dead.
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