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kal
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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 17860
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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 Link Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Clarence wrote: | | kal wrote: | | I've convinced Moome that going forward, taking money months and months in advance is not a good idea |
It's a great idea if he needs to pay for design costs and early production costs. Plus it helps him gauge interest, demand, and commitment.
Why sink 6 months of design work and production cost into something that you can't even get 50 people to put a $40 deposit towards?
Plus it likely keeps him motivated to deliver. I'm sure there have been several times (like after getting bashed by Phil's constant rants) that moome's wondered if this low quantity niche is worth the hassle. But since he's already collected $2000 of deposits, he's commited to deliver.
The committment of a deposit works both ways. |
I should have probably worded this a bit differently as "taking money months and months in advance is not a good idea for curtpalme.com customers".
Approximately 80-90% of people buying the third party products (not just Moome's) are not forum regulars but just from the 7000+ newsletters readers. These people don't know Moome and don't care. Most (still) think that Curt still sells all these things directly himself even with all the warnings and disclaimers I put up.
Asking joe-consumer to put money up months and months in advance isn't going to work. In fact, just asking a few weeks in advance doesn't work perfectly either. There are a lot of nervous people emailing Curt (mistakenly) asking what's going on.
I've also noticed that just asking forum users to pay down-payments doesn't show how well something could sell. Case in point is Graham's setup DVD. He sold ~40 in the first 8 months of mentioning it on the AVS CRT forum. Once I put it up here and mentioned it in newsletters, he sold 80 in 2-3 days and since then has been selling 10-15/month (over the last 5 months).
Another example is John with his Sony DVI cards. He took pre-orders on AVS for a a few months and only sold 1/2 of them. Interest just dried up. We advertised them here and the remaining 70 sold in 2-3 weeks.
Moral of the story: Forums are a HORRIBLE way to gauge buyer interest. It represents a very minor portion of people willing to buy. (At least for us here).
Kal
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My basement/HT/bar/brewery build 2.0
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26690
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Link Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 12:20 am Post subject: |
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| wallace123456 wrote: | | Phil Smith wrote: | I'm going to start calling you "sweetie".  |
Now Phil,
Have you been in the Chat Room again??? 
wallace |
LOL 
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CRT.
HD done right!
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Phil Smith
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 7717
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| Link Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 1:14 am Post subject: |
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Last edited by Phil Smith on Mon Oct 01, 2007 11:26 pm; edited 2 times in total
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 17860
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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| Link Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 1:59 am Post subject: |
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The EXT-HD boxes are obviously not ready to ship on 9/20.
This is one of the reasons why Moome's gone away from the old way of doing orders where he promised dates way before features were finalized and way before the boxes were actually ordered from the factory. Delays happen, and then a vocal minority of people bitch enough and email email to slow down the whole process... No more!
Kal
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Clarence
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 3793
Location: Smith Mtn Lake, VA
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| Link Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 2:01 am Post subject: |
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| Clarence wrote: | Phil, how many times have you ordered from moome? Several.
How many times has he been late? Several.
How many times have you gotten frustrated and posted about it? Several.
How many times have you told yourself "never again"? Several.
How many times have you said "Damn... I'm glad this product exists"? Several.
So you want your money back since the delivery date is at least another month away? Then just ask for it. |
Phil, the next time you order a card from moome (yes, I know, last time was the last time, and so was the time before that), just wait until he starts shipping before you pay for one.
What's this new version adding to your setup that you're so anxious and pissy about? You've gone 70+ years  without a moome-EXT, surely you can wait a few weeks more.
Kal stated "late October".
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 17860
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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| Link Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 2:11 am Post subject: |
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To add to Clarence's post: I'm sure Moome would be happy to give you a full refund Phil if you're not happy that it's taking so long. You can go buy something else.
(Late October was me being pessimistic [realistic?] knowing past order delays with Moome. Promise something at a later date and deliver early and you're a hero. Give the 'best' date and miss it and everyone asks for your head on a spike. My motto's always been: Under-promise/Over-deliver.)
Kal
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Phil Smith
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
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| Link Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 3:13 am Post subject: |
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Phil Smith
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
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| Link Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 3:18 am Post subject: |
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Last edited by Phil Smith on Mon Oct 01, 2007 11:27 pm; edited 2 times in total
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 17860
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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| Link Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 4:14 am Post subject: |
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Nope, it's definitely Moome's fault for promising a date and not following through on it. 100% his fault. My job now is to make sure it can never be his fault again. 
My take is: He should never have given dates in the first place. Now when I give dates, it's when something concrete is known. No more "I think if all goes well it should be ready to ship on ____ date". Doesn't excuse what's happened in the past though. It wasn't right.
Kal
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Clarence
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 3793
Location: Smith Mtn Lake, VA
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| Link Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Phil Smith wrote: | Apparently, Moome can say and do whatever he pleases, and there will always be someone to come to his defense. I just have to learn to accept this.  |
Bingo! I think you finally got it! The choices are... option #1: wait (and wait and wait) for whenever Moome ships, regardless of when he expected to ship, planned to ship, hoped to shipped, or promised to ship. Or option #2... go completely without. Buyer's choice.
Kick back, keep enjoying a few more weeks with your fully-functional system as is (which is likely currently still viable with DVI and HDMI sources mainly because of moome's previous products). Savor the sweet anticipation, don't stew in bitter anxiety.
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Phil Smith
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| Link Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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jamieh
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 113
Location: Dundas, Ontario, Canada
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| Link Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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The best advice i've seen so far about ordering Moome's products is from Clarence...wait till they start shipping and then order one.
I've been down this road a couple times, first with the DVI card and then with the HDMI card. I too complained about the delay after delay and the promises on delivery dates, got bitch slapped both times(no offence to the slapper....lol) and both times received my order without any notice and both times been as happy as a pig in sh*t afterwards. I'm wanting one Moome's new EXT boxes real bad but i'm waiting till they ship. I know i'm taking my chances on them being soldout(maybe they already are, i haven't checked lately) and if they are i'll take my chances on a second batch. No more slap downs for me...i'm getting too old to duck!
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kal
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Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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| Link Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 2:41 am Post subject: |
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Yep. Moome told me yesterday that the EXT-HD will likely ship end of October as I state on the order page.
If you're seriously not happy Phil, ask for your money back. Seriously. What else can you expect Moome to do? Completely change his brain and thought process so that he never gives overly optimistic release dates? If you're not happy with a company, the only way to vote is with your dollars.
Kal
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Phil Smith
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
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| Link Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 3:50 am Post subject: |
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Last edited by Phil Smith on Mon Oct 01, 2007 11:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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kal
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5681
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Link Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Phil Smith wrote: | | kal wrote: | | What else can you expect Moome to do?l |
I don't know...not lie to me?  |
Phil this is wrong. What Moome is doing is no more than what is and has been COMMON with the entire electronic industry.
Moome is more likely experiencing some delays, and these delays may not be his fault. Hell, even the Space shuttle is delayed from time to time.
You seem to not understand that promising to send out an item of that nature, is not something that you simply pluck from a tree, put in a box and ship out the next day. The problem is NOT only a Moome problem, the problem of setting an expected date is something that everybody does, and that's almost every manufacturer - this is more common than not. And the reason for it has more to do with a finished device, that would need all the parts from the manufacturer on time, and things passing all the test. To include, the guy has a life.
And getting things out to you on time is not the most important thing he has going on. Though I know it must really be a tough thing to have to deal with, when someone has a problem with your product not arriving on time, then they come to the forum and bash you for it, then claim over and over that they'll never do business with you again... and what do you know, there's another purchase from that same guy, and if things are not shipped five minutes after the purchase or arrive as promised... "Houston we have a problem"
I think what he has done is a great service for a lot of us with CRT. the fact that he went further to make things happen with HDMI is a real tweet. You should know that he'll never recoup what he put into all this with his time and the money he spent to R&D this product. And for the amount of them that he's making, he's really losing on this, because it's more expensive to make small quantities than it is to do larger ones.
this is not like going into the corner grocery store and having your groceries delivered. It's a ton of work involved in making this stuff happen, and what we're not hearing from him is that he has to debug the first set of boards that was a part of the first promise. When that's done, you sometime have to have the boards done all over. And then there's the ones that may not work with certain devices. We'll based on the spec's and what he had available during R&D, all is fine, but testing it with something that just came out, or may have just arrived at his door may present another challenge for that promised date.
I like the suggestion that Clarence gave you. next time, please don't order anything from this guy until he has one on the shelf.
As far as I'm concerned, I may not like that i have to wait for something electronic, but when you understand why there may be delays, it's better to wait. And most times the wait produces a better product..
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Moose
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 788
Location: Minnesota
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| Link Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | please don't order anything from this guy until he has one on the shelf.
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The only problem with this is when there are limited quantites, such as is the case with the EXT-HD. If you don't reserve one and they sell out, you're out. I've got my money in for my first Moome product. I'd rather have it now, but I fully understand the problem in making a target date (meaning, don't ever believe me when I give a completion date for a program; I'm nearly always wrong, not because I'm sitting on my duff but because it's virtually impossible to foresee all aspects).
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Phil Smith
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
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| Link Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 12:57 am Post subject: |
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Last edited by Phil Smith on Mon Oct 01, 2007 11:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Phil Smith
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 7717
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| Link Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 1:08 am Post subject: |
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Phil Smith
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 7717
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| Link Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 1:10 am Post subject: |
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Last edited by Phil Smith on Mon Oct 01, 2007 11:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
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