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rabies_70
Joined: 15 Feb 2007 Posts: 1189 Location: Carlsbad, CA
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Link Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 5:13 am Post subject: Update: Target is NOT going Blu-ray exclusive |
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OOOOPs........
http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/10544.cfm
I just always find it a little funny when things aren't exactly like the sheeple are told...
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ecrabb Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006 Posts: 15909 Location: Utah
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Link Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 6:24 am Post subject: |
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Frankly, I couldn't understand why people couldn't see through the Sony bull**** on this one even more-so than some of the other Sony PR disinformation. The FUD was even more transparent in this story than it usually is.
They were making it sound like this was some big deal - a blow to the HD-DVD camp, even - that Target would now be carrying a BD player. Ummm... Didn't Target already carry the PS3... that plays BD movies? Oh well - I'm sure a $500 set-top player will be a hot seller at Target!
Sony is just spending more money to get the BD name and logo in front of shoppers... especially since the rack space devoted to HD-DVD and BD movies at Target is basically embarrassing to both formats.
Here's the thread about this story from last week:
http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6059
SC
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Brian Hampton
Joined: 22 Apr 2006 Posts: 1174
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Link Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:49 am Post subject: |
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The news was that they would only sell Blu Ray players.
And,.. it's true.
Either way,.. Do either of you guys really think it matters? Seems so clear to me that HD DVD hasn't the slightest chance of surviving into 2008. Do you really see otherwise?
-Brian
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MYoung
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 369 Location: Madison, WI
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Link Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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Target sells a HD DVD player right now -- XBox 360 and HD DVD drive. The HD DVD drive will be dropping to $179 with King Kong and a mail-in offer for 5 HD DVD movies. For XBox 360 owners (of which there are probably twice as many as PS3 owners) that's the least expensive way into HD movies. I also saw a poll on AVS where the XBox 360 HD DVD add-on is the 3rd most popular HD DVD player -- just behind the HD-A1 and HD-A2. People are discounting the HD DVD add-on, yet they aren't discounting the PS3 as the most popular BD player.
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ecrabb Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006 Posts: 15909 Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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Link Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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Brian Hampton wrote: | Either way,.. Do either of you guys really think it matters? Seems so clear to me that HD DVD hasn't the slightest chance of surviving into 2008. Do you really see otherwise? |
Could you point out what makes the picture so clear to you? Because it's not clear at all to me that HD-DVD doesn't have a chance.
In fact, until just last week when a bunch of new BD titles came out, HD-DVD sales were holding very well and BD was gaining no ground at all - despite the millions of dollars of bribes and marketing that Sony is spending to try to ram it home. There are WAY more standalone Toshiba players sold than BD players. Sony is losing millions of dollars every quarter to push PS3s with BD drives in them. If it weren't for the PS3, BD would be deader than a doornail now because nobody would have bought their overpriced players.
Let's see how long they can keep the PS3 losses up, though. The stockholders will get sick of them losing money hand over fist eventually. How long can they keep throwing away a BILLION dollars a year:
Quote: | The rosy picture was marred by the poor performance of PlayStation 3, a flashy but expensive machine that Sony had been counting on to be its next global hit. Sony said the loss at its games division grew to 29.2 billion yen from 26.8 billion yen in the quarter a year earlier. |
SC
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Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 4901 Location: Flower Mound, TX
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Link Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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Brian Hampton wrote: |
Seems so clear to me that HD DVD hasn't the slightest chance of surviving into 2008. Do you really see otherwise?
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Well, since it seems the only way for this not to happen is for consumers to not be incredibly stupid. Since consumers have proven that there is one thing you can count on and that is that they are incredibly stupid, then you are probably right. I still sit amazed that people are this incredibly uninformed and fall for FUD all the time.
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 17860 Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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Brian Hampton
Joined: 22 Apr 2006 Posts: 1174
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Link Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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SC,
I tried to reply earlier but couldn't for some reason.
Anyway,.. You make some points about how HD DVD sells more stand alone players and if the PS3 didn't exist things would be different and I agree. However, the PS3 isn't just going to go away and it's HD DVD's worst nightmare.
When I look at sales data and also at upcoming releases such as Steven Spielberg's Close Encounters (perhaps it won't take long for other SS films like ET for example), I just don't see much of a chance left for HD DVD. (EDIT - on the other hand, if SS released Jaws on HDDVD I would possibly have to get that.) Technically Blu Ray is superior and it has more studio support.
As far as Sony throwing money away and angry stock holders go... I read the stocks have gone up and that doesn't tend to upset the share holders.
Either way,.. I would rather ignore this stuff and I'm trying to. I don't think I will have to much longer because I believe HD DVD will be history by this time next year. I've read and I believe much of the format war will be resolved by the coming holiday shopping season.
-Brian
Last edited by Brian Hampton on Tue Jul 31, 2007 8:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ecrabb Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006 Posts: 15909 Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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Link Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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BD is not technically superior unless you're reading Sony PR. It's bigger. That's all. Everything else is up for debate as to whether it adds anything to the movie-watching experience. Since HD-DVD is large enough to store even the longest epic at stellar quality levels, I'm not worried about the size.
You may be right that the holidays may decide the winner... or not. Nobody knows, but we'll certainly see. The Spielberg flicks could do the number on HD-DVD, or
I'm not married to Toshiba, HD-DVD or this debate. I don't care for Sony, its politics or its "my way or the highway" screw an industry standard, we'll do it our way M.O. But, if HD-DVD eventually fails, I'll end up with a BD player - likely a non-Sony since I have no interest in buying a $600 player of any kind at this point - especially a PS3. All the games I like are on the Xbox 360, but even that is too rich for my blood right now.
SC
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006 Posts: 10273
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Link Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 8:29 am Post subject: |
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Yesterday, I stopped in the Target nearest to my home ans workplace to pick up the movie 300. They had a placeholder for the BD version and none for the HD DVD version. In fact, not only could I not find a copy on the shelf for the HD DVD version, but they had no placeholder for it at all.
I confirmed this with the store managers for the two stores. I also think BB is becoming anti-HD DVD. I tried to buy an HD DVD player there and they stopped localizing inventory for the HD-A2, and only had one HD-A20. Both on Saturday and yesterday they made no incentive to 'sell' me anything HD DVD, but were more than willing to spend time talking to me about anything Blu-ray.
And here I thought they were somewhat product agnostic.
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oliverg
Joined: 15 May 2007 Posts: 800 Location: Melbourne, Australia
TV/Projector: Sony G90 X2 - Vidikron Vision 1
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Link Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 1:56 am Post subject: |
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I'm not pro either format, I have both types of player. But I only have 3 HD-DVD titles and I have over 30 BR titles - there's simply more stuff coming out on BR.
The moms and dads have spoken - BR is the future, HD-DVD is going to die but it will do so in a very convulted way. BR will definately be dominant over the course of HD-DVD's long downfall. I'm not convinced it will die in 2008 - but decline certainly.
Its all about market share - HD-DVD is going to become the "Apple" of the HD movie world. (Computers, not IPods!) - Apple has survived on between 3-9% of the PC market, perhaps HD-DVD will survive at those levels too?
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ecrabb Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006 Posts: 15909 Location: Utah
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Link Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 3:15 am Post subject: |
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I was in the local BestBuy last week. There were two BD endcap displays, and one HD-DVD endcap display. Both were prominently displayed across from the BD/HD software. I didn't see which BD players were in stock because I don't know the models, but one was $899. They had spots on the shelf for both the A2 and A20, but it looked like the A2 was sold out. Software stock was pretty comparable for both formats.
So it would seem HD-DVD is getting a pretty fair shake in one BB store.
They also had the LG SuperBlu player just sitting on a shelf for $999, but I don't see that being a hot seller, regardless of whether it's hooked up or not. It just WAY too much money.
SC
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AnalogRocks Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 26690 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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Link Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 5:07 am Post subject: |
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ecrabb wrote: | snipped.........
They also had the LG SuperBlu player just sitting on a shelf for $999, but I don't see that being a hot seller, regardless of whether it's hooked up or not. It just WAY too much money.
SC |
I was at a couple of big box stores this past weekend. I noticed the same thing. When you can get a DVD recorder for $99 bucks and a DVD player for $29 bucks then having to spend $999 to get high def seems wayyy to much to some.
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006 Posts: 10273
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Link Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 9:57 am Post subject: |
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I gave up on the so-called discount stores. Since I could get a player for $240 from Amazon (free shipping, too) and focusing only on $20-25 moivies of interest for now, its a lot different.
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oliverg
Joined: 15 May 2007 Posts: 800 Location: Melbourne, Australia
TV/Projector: Sony G90 X2 - Vidikron Vision 1
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Link Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 10:40 am Post subject: |
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ecrabb wrote: |
They also had the LG SuperBlu player just sitting on a shelf for $999, but I don't see that being a hot seller, regardless of whether it's hooked up or not. It just WAY too much money.
SC |
There are plenty of cheaper BR players now - and they are getting cheaper all the time.
As far as Joe Public is concerned - HD-DVD is another FLA (five letter acronym) - Bluray 'sounds' cool. In the end, this format war will be decided by Joe, not by enthusiasts like us
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006 Posts: 10273
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Link Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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Both are available new for <$500.
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ecrabb Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006 Posts: 15909 Location: Utah
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Link Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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oliverg wrote: | As far as Joe Public is concerned - HD-DVD is another FLA (five letter acronym) - Bluray 'sounds' cool. In the end, this format war will be decided by Joe, not by enthusiasts like us |
A FLA is a Flash file.
I've heard a lot of BD supporters say that, but I haven't seen any evidence that actually backs it up. If we're going to talk opinion and anecdotes, then I'll give mine, too. People I talk to about the situation hear "HD" and know it's something about high-definition and must be a good thing. Even J6P knows "HD". OTOH, WTF is Blu-ray? Any cool factor Blu-ray might have is easily offset by the fact that the name itself doesn't say anything at all about what it is or what it does. It may as well be something for a PlayStation or an Xbox. What did you say a Blu-ray is again?
WanMan wrote: | Both are available new for <$500. |
Yeah, I was just at BestBuy over lunch and the S300 was $450 or so, but they didn't have any in the store to sell. The S1 was $800, and they had a dirty open-box on the shelf for $700. The $800 S1 is what a saw last time I was there. They also had a new Panasonic for $600, I think, and I can't remember what the Samsung was selling for.
By comparison, the A2 was $299, and the A20 for $399. They had a bunch of A2's, but no A20's to sell.
If I end up getting a BD player, I think I'll buy a used or refurb S1 - it looks like a really well-built piece of kit - kind of my like my XA2.
It's funny to me that you can get both a nice Sony player and a nice Toshiba player for $850. Somehow, I don't think the LG player is going to sell.
SC
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006 Posts: 10273
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Link Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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The S301 was available at Costco for $450 (same as S300 but w/HDMI cable). Had they sold an unbundled PS3, I would have bought it from them. By comparison, $240 for the HD-A2 from Amazon w/free shipping. That is less than my first DVD player I bought back in 1999.
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Stonefool
Joined: 24 Dec 2006 Posts: 253 Location: Sweden
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Link Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 12:03 am Post subject: |
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Since everything has to do with money in the end, Sony will probably win this time. Sony spend way too much money for their meagre earnings, which usually means they're going for the long run earnings, where Toshiba seems to go for the get-rich-quick buck today.
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Bucketfoot
Joined: 17 Mar 2006 Posts: 698 Location: Centennial, CO
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Link Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 1:17 am Post subject: |
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oliverg wrote: | There are plenty of cheaper BR players now - and they are getting cheaper all the time. |
You may call $500 getting cheaper, but not compared to the $199 I paid for both of my HD DVD players (bought at separate times from different places).
I'm certainly glad to see prices coming down, but will not go neutral until they hit my magic $200 level.
oliverg wrote: | As far as Joe Public is concerned - HD-DVD is another FLA (five letter acronym) - Bluray 'sounds' cool. In the end, this format war will be decided by Joe, not by enthusiasts like us |
I completely disagree on the name. I am an Electronic Engineer and while Bluray may sound cool to all of my technical colleagues, my non-technical friends all say WTF is Bluray, but clearly understand that HD DVD means High Definition.
I however agree that it will be decided by J6P and he will go with the lowest price product. And don't bother with the studio support argument. The studios will all eventually support amy product that sells.
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