CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

JustGreg · Joined: 07 Mar 2006 Posts: 3098 Location: Kenosha, WI

I can't believe my damn luck. Tuesday at work I was reading about how 33% of 360's are failing with lock ups or the Red Ring of Death. I've been trying to be more positive about things in life lately so instead of thinking like I used to; eg, "I'll bet mine is gonna die soon cause I've had it 7 months", I considered myself immune because it's been working great.

I'll be a SONOFABITCH if I didn't head down to the HT Tue night, a mere 4 hours after doing all that reading, to play Fear on the next highest level from the last one I beat, powered everything up, inserted the disc...and the box booted normally. I started the game, chose new game, it started to load...and froze up. Huh. OK. This has happened a couple times in the past and recovered, no biggie (still practicing my new inner peace attitude...ohhhmmmmmm) so I got off my fat ass, walked over to the AV rack, reset the power, went back to my seat, watched the split ball splash come up...and it froze again. (Inner peace started slipping at this point). WTF!!!, I bellowed to the empty room.

I pulled the disc, checked it for dirt, it looked good so I tried again. THIS time it didn't even try to display the splash screen. Just the 3 rotating red segments cycling. MF-ER!!! So...I pulled the power to the supply, removed the HD, plugged it back in and tried to power it without the HD...same red lights. Now I'm pissed!!!! (didn't take long did it) f*ck ALL THAT ZEN bull****...GODDAMN $400.00 piece of sh*t!!

Manuals and books were flying as I dug through the library looking for the manual to the antagonistic collection of plastic and Indonesian handicraft. Finally found it and walked upstairs to get the cordless phone (I have corded phones built into both front seats but no reachy the rack) so I could be mobile when I talked with their tech rep who I just KNEW would be named Hajji or some such.)

I'm on hold to their 800 # listening to their electronic technican named MAC or MAX lead me through the sh*t I already tried. Finally the recorded imbecile promises to get me an imbecile with a pulse after informing me "he" can't help me any further. NOW I'm f*cking livid. It's now 10:00, I have one damn night off for the 4th and I wanted to shoot the sh*t out of things and I was going to be deprived.

Another 15 minutes and I get Hajji...or something close to that. Who gives a f*ck what his name is anyway. He's talking a billion miles an hour...UNTIL I told him to slow the f*ck down or put me back in the queue "because I'm not a little f*cking kid and I'm pretty pissed off right now!". "Oh yes sir. I am apologizing for your inconvenience." I almost threw the phone at this point. MY f*cking inconvenience??? I suppose it IS but it isn't like I WILLINGLY take ownership of it.

This person who's never eaten a hamburger in his life leads me back through the ENTIRE MAC/MAX process...again. Finally we exhausted the troubleshooting flow chart in Hajji's possession and he began rattling off the return for repair process. After 5-6 attempts to shut him up...(GE 5 Ghz phones rock! They can take some abuse..highly recommend them) I said, "What do you mean the warranty expires in 30 days!!??" Oh yes sir. I am seeing that it will expire July 30th.
"Ummmm...listen Haj...I didn't BUY the thing until December so how do you get July?"
"The serial number determines this sir", says Haj.
"I don't give a rats ass what the serial number says. I have a dated sales receipt from December 2006."..says I.
"Vell sir, I can give you the address to write to Microsoft and file a complaint if you vish." says Haj
"I DO 'vish" to have that address and say it slowly and clearly OK?" says I.

Haj gives me the address, and then I ask him if the unit coming back to me will have the improved cooling system, eg, heats sinks, etc such as are in the Elite.

"Oh no no. It vill be coming back repaired to you. If they cannot repair it, they vill send you a replacement but not a new one, no no." says Haj.

"Just a goddamn minute here. It's known worldwide that 33% of the XBox 360's sold have failed and are defective, which means that even if only 3 million were sold, that 1 MILLION are defective! It also means the other 2 MILLION are ticking time bombs and WILL fail. And you're going to send me back another defective replacement that may or may not be new but certainly doesn't have the original design defects corrected??!!" says I.

"I am being sorry but that is the current policy. You may write to Microsoft vonce again and be telling them of your unhappiness." Says Haj.

"Oh you can bet your ass I'll be writing Microsoft!" says I

The rest of the call was Haj telling me how a prepaid box will be delivered to me within 3-4 days and I'm to put the POS in it with no cables, HD, or anything, and it will take 6-8 days once they get it to return it to me. And THEN there's only a 30 day warranty on the repaired unit!!! Shocked

First Sony...now Microsux. It's a wonder I don't have more than the 10+ ulcers I already have. I was tempted to pop it open and perform Barry surgery on it but seeing as it's still under SOME kind of warranty (to be determined I guess) I'd let them take a whack at it first.

I picked a hellva time to quit sniffing glue!!

Greg

**Curt Palme** · Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 5:41 pm Post subject:

Do a search on the net for the red circle of death. You need some heat sink compound and some screws and washers. Nothing more. And about an hour of your time.

I will soon be offering this service for less than what MS does, $100 incl return shipping will be my price, but I want to stock up on a few 360s before I start to offer the service. Iv'e done it once so far and it worked great.

People are offering the details on the fix on eBay for $8.00 or so, but you should be able to google the sites that have the info for free.

JustGreg · Joined: 07 Mar 2006 Posts: 3098 Location: Kenosha, WI

I did get to play some Xbox that night....2 frigging hours later on the original modded 1.5. The usual setup times were involved. I had to get the CS2 to t-code and scale it to 720, create a memory on the 'Quee, tweek it, yadda, yadda..

I didn't get to bed until 1am but that old box didn't lock up once. And M$ wonders why people burn copies of their sh*t. Payback's a MF-ER *******.

Greg

JustGreg · Joined: 07 Mar 2006 Posts: 3098 Location: Kenosha, WI

**Curt Palme** · Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 5:55 pm Post subject:

Sorry, I stopped reading after I read the circle of death.. and missed the best parts of your posts.

Good luck... or 'ruck' as it were... Very Happy

**kal** · Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 6:55 pm Post subject: Re: XB360 Took a Dump

JustGreg · Joined: 07 Mar 2006 Posts: 3098 Location: Kenosha, WI

Your absolutely correct about the sources of information Kal. Microsoft isn't forthcoming with the actual numbers of defects (big surprise there) so in light of that, they get whatever the worldwide media delivers. The fact M$ refuses to pony up the repair rates is telling in itself.
A quick google search brings up a bunch of pissed off little kid game sights but there are some credible sites reporting. Good Morning America and various news agencies have touched on the failure rate too.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,134144-pg,1/article.html

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=7892

http://www.xbox-scene.com/xbox1data/sep/EElFukVFVFhHnbraxF.php

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/aei/2007/06/a_qa_with_todd_holmdahl_the_hardware_guy_at_microsoft_about_xbox_360_failures.html

The last will probably offer the most credibility; especially for those who don't think xbox-scene.com has any.

Greg

JustGreg · Joined: 07 Mar 2006 Posts: 3098 Location: Kenosha, WI

I read this one Tue but it's interesting to note.

One M$ authorized repair facility in the UK has recently refused to repair any more 360's due to the high failure rate.

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=7903

**kal** · Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 7:56 pm Post subject:

We're likely (hopefully?) going to see a service recall by MS here... one can only hope. Or maybe because it's not a 'safety issue' (like with cars) they doesn't have to be done.

Easier for MS to simply fix the problem on future machines and fix the ones that come back in the meantime. Hopefully MS is going to be a lit lenient on the warranty period for people that have this problem as it's obviously a manufacturing problem.

Kal

**Joust** · Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 8:10 pm Post subject:

That is some funny $hit.

I feel your pain however. imagine me with the same towering rage. BUT.... I spent all of 2005 and half of 2006 in India. and 2004 i was in Pakistan.
I used to be very patient and tolerant. I have lost all that. Now i jump right to pi$$ed right off and a little prejudiced as well.

my advice:
if you have warrantee. USE it. argue with them to get a full year on the new box. Buy an additional year if you can. $24 well spent. Eventually the replacement box you get will be with the newly engineered heat sink for the GPU. (the elite does NOT have this BTW, its just hte same old microcrap design)

the second your warrantee runs out. RIP the box open and fix it. Preventive maintenance.

I have one box freshly arrived from M$ warrantee replacement for sale. Smile

overclkr · Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 4227

Guys,

There has been a class action lawsuit filed against microsoft which I'm sure there will be plenty.

My xbox 360 took a dump (3 rings of death) right before my meet and after MS told me that I would have to pay 140 dollars to get it fixed, I got pissed.

I took apart my 360 and found an aluminum spacer in between the heat sink compound and GPU on the heat sink and couldn't believe it. How anybody would be SO STUPID to put that kind of cooling design on a GPU is beyond me.

Anyway, after applying new compound and tightening up the heatsink to properly cover the GPU, it ended up being dead anyway.

I explained this after a second call today to the support line and was told there was nothing they could do.

After a simple google search, I found this link to which I will be joining the lawsuit against them.

http://www.lawyersandsettlements.com/articles/536/xbox-warranty.html

Feel free if you get any trouble from MS to pop on in and join.

This really pisses me off big time to find this out only a few weeks after I had to go through this. Not only that, but I bought a second console a couple of days ago to replace the original one that I'm sure has the same faulty design.

I have made A LOT of money for those pricks over the years and do not appreciate this one bit.

Cliff

overclkr · Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 4227

What really makes this suck as well is the people that have had there 360's modded by MP to improve video performance who will not be able to send their Xbox consoles in as well. Evil or Very Mad

Brian Hampton · Joined: 22 Apr 2006 Posts: 1174

Xbox is in the news currently on Yahoo...

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070705/microsoft_xbox_warranty.html?.v=10

Looks like they plan to repair more of them...

(I'm glad the PS3 was built right from the start. Seriously, most everyone told me the Ps3 would explode when you first plugged it in and they were going to wait till problems were solved and they were just thinking that because thats what Xbox's tend to do.)

**Joust** · Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 3:44 am Post subject:

yeah, I've seen the so-called fix they are proposing. It'll help i guess but its a bandaid not a true fix.
there are a few problems.
the root cause is that the GPU is directly under the DVD drive. not much room for a heat sink and restricted air flow for it.

if you want to use this thing in an HT. I highly recomend removing the DVD drive and using it externally. extend the power cable and buy an off the shelf Sata cable for it.
then put a real heat sink on the GPU. you can also mod the fans to go faster but if you do those other things, you won't need to.

Do this BEFORE you get the three light ring of death

Bighitter · Joined: 15 Dec 2006 Posts: 159

MS just announced they are extending the 360 warranty to 3 years.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/1700AP_Microsoft_Xbox_Warranty.html

emdawgz1 · Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 7949

From the NYTimes.

July 6, 2007
Microsoft to Spend $1.15 Billion for Xbox Repairs
By ERIC A. TAUB

LOS ANGELES, July 5 — In what may be one of the costliest consumer warranty repairs in history, Microsoft announced on Thursday that it would spend up to $1.15 billion to repair failing Xbox 360 game machine consoles.

While the company would not say how many units were failing, Robbie Bach, president of Microsoft’s entertainment and devices division, said that there have been an “unacceptable high number of repairs.” The majority of Xbox 360 owners, he said, have not experienced hardware failure.

Company officials said that Microsoft had sold 11.6 million Xbox 360 units by the end of June, shy of the 12 million units the company had predicted. The Xbox 360, which first went of sale in November 2005, is currently the best-selling game machine in the United States, according to NPD, a market research firm.

The size of the anticipated repair bill suggests that a third to as many as half of the machines are flawed.

Microsoft, based in Redmond, Wash., said it would take a charge of $1.05 billion to $1.15 billion against earnings in the quarter ended June 30. Consumers know they have a problem if three red flashing lights appear on the console. Gamers on online forums have been referring to the event as “the Red Ring of Death” because the machine then shuts down.

The company declined to explain the nature of the failure, but said that it was not caused by a single problem in the console, which it said contained 1,700 components and 500 million transistors. The company also said there were no health or safety concerns involved. The problem began to appear over the last three to four months, Mr. Bach said, after “significant usage” of the consoles. He said the company has taken steps to correct the problem in new devices.

Microsoft said it would extend the warranty of the game console to three years to customers worldwide. Previously, products sold in the United States were covered by a one-year warranty, while Xbox 360 units sold in Europe had a two-year warranty.

In addition, customers who have had their consoles repaired because of the “three flashing lights” problem will be reimbursed for the cost of the repairs.

Microsoft has succeeded in establishing the Xbox brand against the better known Sony PlayStation and other game machines. The Xbox and its successor, the Xbox 360, was the software maker’s first major foray into hardware. Although sales are small relative to the rest of Microsoft’s revenue, the Xbox has been an important venture for the company and was viewed by many analysts as Microsoft’s attempt to compete with the likes of Sony and Apple for control of electronics and entertainment within homes.

The device can be used to access the Internet and view movies. Microsoft said its entertainment and devices division reported an operating loss of $315 million on $929 million in revenue for the three-month period that ended in March, and analysts have estimated that the company lost about $6 billion getting a foothold in the game machine industry.

A new Xbox 360 with a 20-gigabyte hard drive sells for about $400, but other versions cost about $300.

The announcement comes on the eve of the E3 Media and Business Summit, the video-game industry’s major trade show, to be held next week in Los Angeles. “This is bound to affect discussions between Microsoft and its developers and retailers,” said Richard Doherty, a partner in the research company Envisioneering Group.

JustGreg · Joined: 07 Mar 2006 Posts: 3098 Location: Kenosha, WI

HAH!!!! Microsoft takes it up the ass....from itself! That right there kiddies is an example of the power of collective angst....a couple hundred million worldwide people chanting "Microsoft..go f*ck yourself."
How sweet is THIS!
BWAHAHAHA. Dickheads! That's what they get for paying 6 year old orphans in 2nd world countries $1.75 a month to work 6 12 hour days cranking out their sh*t....Martha Stewart Walmart MF-ERs! Laughing

3 yrs....hoooohboy! am I gonna f*ck with this box now. I have an Elite before this is all said and done. I learned from the best how to deal with warranty rip offs (Sony). Twisted Evil

Greg

JustGreg · Joined: 07 Mar 2006 Posts: 3098 Location: Kenosha, WI

MS's Peter Moore takes one for the team.......

Open Letter From Peter Moore
To our Xbox Community:

You've spoken, and we’ve heard you. Good service and a good customer experience are areas of the business that we care deeply about. And frankly, we've not been doing a good enough job.

Some of you have expressed frustration with the customer experiences you have had with Xbox 360; frustration with having to return your console for service after receiving the general hardware error message on the console.

The majority of customers who own Xbox 360 consoles have had a terrific experience from their first day, and continue to, day in and day out. But when anyone questions the reliability of our product, or our commitment to our customers, it's something I take very seriously.

We have been following this issue closely, and with on-going testing have identified several factors that can cause a general hardware failure indicated by three flashing red lights on the console. To address this issue, and as part of our ongoing work, we have already made certain improvements to the console.

We are also implementing some important policy changes intended to keep you in the game, worry-free.

As of today, all Xbox 360 consoles are covered by an enhanced warranty program to address specifically the general hardware failures indicated by the three flashing red lights on the console. This applies to new and previously-sold consoles. While we will still have a general one year console warranty (two years in some countries), we are announcing today a three-year warranty that covers any console that displays a three flashing red lights error message. If a customer has an issue indicated by the three flashing red lights, Microsoft will repair the console free of charge—including shipping—for three years from the console’s purchase date. We will also retroactively reimburse any of you who paid for repairs related to problems indicated by this error message in the past. In doing so, Microsoft stands behind its products and takes responsibility to ensure that every Xbox 360 console owner continues to have a fantastic gaming experience.

If we have let any of you down in the experience you have had with your Xbox 360, we sincerely apologize. We are taking responsibility and are making these changes to ensure that every Xbox 360 owner continues to have a great experience.

This will take a few days to roll out globally, and I appreciate your continued patience as we launch this program. I've posted an FAQ that should address some additional questions, and we'll update it over the next few days.

I want to thank you, on behalf of all us at Microsoft, for your loyalty.

I have to say one thing...M$ has raised the bar. Sony shouldn't have any problem weasling under it...being little short guys and all. When the BR drives start going tats up like the DVD ROM's did on the PS2, it'll be interesting to see how they handle it.

I still want mine updated while they have it tho. I'll even take an Elite without the bigger HD. One way or another I'm gonna get one with HDMI. One way or another.............. Twisted Evil

Greg

JustGreg · Joined: 07 Mar 2006 Posts: 3098 Location: Kenosha, WI

Expanded Xbox 360 Warranty Coverage FAQ
Q: What are you rolling out that is new?
A: While we maintain our one-year console warranty (two years in some countries), Microsoft is extending the terms of its Xbox 360 warranty to three years for certain general hardware failures which are indicated by three flashing red lights on the console. This will apply to new and existing customers and we will retroactively pay back the out-of-warranty repair costs paid by customers for console problems indicated by the three flashing red lights.

Q: How does this warranty differ from your existing warranty?
A: Currently, any Xbox 360 is covered by a one year manufacturer’s warranty (two years in some parts of the world). If the console is out of warranty, there is a charge to have it repaired. It then comes with an additional one year repair warranty. With these changes, there is effectively a three year warranty with no charge for repair for general hardware failures indicated by the three flashing red lights error code which displays on the console.

Q: Is this effective worldwide?
A: Yes, these policies are global. The new policies are now being instituted in our customer service centers around the world, which may take a few days to fully implement.

Q: When does the policy change go into effect?
A: These new policies are now being instituted in our customer service centers around the world, which may take a few days to fully implement. They will apply to new and existing customers. For the latest information, customers should visit Xbox.com.

Q: Is there any health or safety issue at play here?
A: This is in no way related to any sort of product safety issue.

Q: Do I get a refund?
A: Yes, we will reimburse any customer who was out of warranty and paid for repairs due issues indicated by the three flashing red lights error message. Customer should expect to receive a check in 10-12 weeks.

Q: How does this affect my extended warranty bought from my retailer?
A: You’re still covered under your existing warranty for issues outside the scope of this specific three-year warranty.

Q: Have you identified a root cause that can lead to failure?
A: There is not a single issue that we can point to as being a problem. We test the product extensively, including accelerated life testing, but the nature of the console itself is very complex, as it’s a consumer electronic product that contains more than 1,700 different components and 500 million transistors.

There are a variety of scenarios that can cause a general hardware failure. Only the indicator (the three flashing red lights) is always the same.

Q: Who do I contact with further questions?
A: Please contact your local Xbox Customer Service (1-800-4-MY-XBOX in the US and Canada).

WanMan · Joined: 19 Mar 2006 Posts: 10273

Still doesn't make me happy.

While I've only briefly experienced the three rings of death I determined it was the wall-mounted APC (lightweight) surge suppressor. Removed the suppressor and everything worked fine. But then the last year has been a crazier set of problems.

Visual anomalies that often are a splash screen even though you may be in a game's lobby or actually in the game. Nice and blind you are while your friends duck for cover and you look like the fool of August.

Then there are the change visual objects where the look and feel of the single-player game intrudes into the multiplayer game, you lose your secondary weapons, etc., etc., etc.

And if those were not enough to bug the h3ll out of you there are the session disconnects (and your hosting the friggen Live game!) and console freezes that do not recover. In the end there is a sequence of endless reboots and power cycles.

And for what? To be asked over and over again: is the console laying down? Is it sitting on carpet? If the room's temperature warm? Is it in an audio rack or bookcase? Is it this or that or something else that ultimate is the problem and not the poor console?

Seriously, I've had these problems in the middle of winter where the room's temp was ~50ºF, with the console sitting upright, on top of some table with no other heat source around and plenty of ventilation. Same for the power brick. During the warmer months I keep the room around 72ºF, have a fan blowing on it, measured the temps to much less than my PCs, and yet the problems persist.

And tonight's extreme is for me to take an extreme and try some load mickey mouse 'cooler' to see if the f-ing video chipset can handle the gameplay.