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BradTheAggie
Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 651 Location: Oak Point, Texas
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Link Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 2:51 pm Post subject: inwall speaker wire question |
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I'm rewiring my HT room, ceiling mounting my Marquee, and placing my electronics in an adjacent closet. I need to run inwall wire for the front three speakers, and will need around 100' of cable. Right now I'm looking at PartsExpress 12 awg CL3 wire at around $36. Does anyone know where I could get 10 awg CL3 at a decent price? I'm sure 12 awg would work fine, but my surrounds are already wired with a fancy-pants brand of 10 awg cable (that is way too expensive for my current budget constraints), so if I can get that for not too much more, all the better...
Thanks!
_________________ (bholman on the AVS forum)
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Axatax
Joined: 01 Nov 2006 Posts: 403
TV/Projector: Sony VPH-G70Q (aka Barco Cine8 Onyx)
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Link Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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10awg is overkill and uncommon for speaker wire.
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Curt Palme CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 24301 Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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Link Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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Dude, you could jumpstart a car with 10 gauge..
OK, not quite, but 12-14 gauge is fine. For the surrounds I usually use 16.
Parts Express pricing is pretty good usually, but spending more than $.35 a foot for other than PVC jacketed Home Depot stuff is a waste of money (in my opinion).
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zaphod
Joined: 16 Jun 2006 Posts: 2002 Location: Cloverdale
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Link Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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Curt Palme wrote: | Dude, you could jumpstart a car with 10 gauge.. OK, not quite, but 12-14 gauge is fine. For the surrounds I usually use 16. |
Dude, i've done that!
working in northern ontario for the dept. of lands and forests we had two vans for getting between base camp and the work site. one had the lights left on overnight (DOH!). all we had that was long enough was some 16ga car audio speaker wire (it might have actually been 18ga). it got REAL WARM but we jumped the battery.
Curt Palme wrote: | Parts Express pricing is pretty good usually, but spending more than $.35 a foot for other than PVC jacketed Home Depot stuff is a waste of money (in my opinion). |
Curt knows that i have obscene speaker wire, but to me it makes a difference. that's to me. so the only answer for you Brad is "can you hear the difference". if you can, and you're going to sit and think "i should have done 10ga" for the next 5 years instead of listening to the movie then do it. if you can't hear a difference then don't do it.
the difference you hear might be psychoacoustical, but if you hear it, and you care, then do it. it's your money, your toy room and your ears.
and now i have to make a quick call to buy some stock in overpriced 8 ga silver stranded wire...
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BradTheAggie
Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 651 Location: Oak Point, Texas
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Link Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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Blue Jeans has the Belden 5T00UP 10 awg for $.57/foot. It will cost about $72 for 110' delivered, so that's probably what I'll do.
My ears are WAY too fried from years of going to Dead Kennedy / Circle Jerk / Who / Ted Nugent / etc. concerts to discern any real difference. It really is a "my toy" kind of thing, and I'm not ashamed to admit it. I spent thousands of dollars on a Lexicon processor, Sunfire and Acurus amps and Dynaudio speakers. I'll spring an extra $35 on inwall wire, knowing I can't hear the difference, but what the hell!
_________________ (bholman on the AVS forum)
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zaphod
Joined: 16 Jun 2006 Posts: 2002 Location: Cloverdale
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Link Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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BradTheAggie wrote: | I spent thousands of dollars on a Lexicon processor, Sunfire and Acurus amps and Dynaudio speakers. I'll spring an extra $35 on inwall wire, knowing I can't hear the difference, but what the hell! |
when i ran the interrconnect through the walls to the speaker amps i also pulled plenum rated speaker cable from Home Depot at the same time. I'll never use it. but when i sell the place one day the "media room" will be more attractive. the extra $$ for the speaker wire raised the functionality of the room at sale time by $$$.
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 17860 Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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ecrabb Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006 Posts: 15909 Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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Link Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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I bought Blue Jeans Twelve White (12 AWG), and was really impressed with their process and the Belden/BJC wire. The stuff came right away.
I saw this link on AVS one time to Roger Russell's page on speaker wire... very interesting reading. He covers all kinds of interesting things about ridiculously priced esoteric cable, etc. Most important to me, though was the table to show recommended wire gauge based on the length of the run.
http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm
I was well under 50' for all my runs, so I was fine for 12 ga.
SC
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Chuck27
Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 379 Location: Caledon Township, Ontario
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Link Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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I used a big spool of regular old 14/3 copper house wire. Works fine for me.
Chuck
_________________ Chuck
using acreage for sound insulation since 1999
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Curt Palme CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 24301 Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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Link Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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BradTheAggie wrote: |
My ears are WAY too fried from years of going to Dead Kennedy / Circle Jerk / Who / Ted Nugent / etc. concerts to discern any real difference. ! |
I heard today that the Nuge is playing a local state fair in Wa. state about 10 minutes from my place in Aug. Never seen him, so I'm going!
As long as he doesn't play any sappy Damn Yankees, I won't have to pull out my arrows and shoot him...
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mack1
Joined: 21 Mar 2006 Posts: 494 Location: SARNIA
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Link Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:52 am Post subject: |
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What ever you use make sure it's O2 free and made in West Korea and the copper comes from the silver mines in western Iceland
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AnalogRocks Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 26690 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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Link Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 4:51 am Post subject: |
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C'mon now Mack, you know the silver refinery in Eastern Iceland has far superior linearity in their long strand copper free silver bi wire cabling.
_________________ Tech support for nothing
CRT.
HD done right!
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Chuck27
Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 379 Location: Caledon Township, Ontario
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Link Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:58 am Post subject: |
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mack1 wrote: | What ever you use make sure it's O2 free and made in West Korea and the copper comes from the silver mines in western Iceland |
HAHAHAHAHAHAH.....good one, Terry!
_________________ Chuck
using acreage for sound insulation since 1999
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emdawgz1
Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 7949
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Link Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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Now Announcing!
Our Single Grain, Oxygen Free, Transparent Silver wire comes in an inwall version.
This is perfect for all High end inwall Speaker applications.
Our labs (re-opened) in W. Korea are working non-stop in filling backorders.
Order NOW!!!
Available soon
Mr. Nucleo! produce your own perfectly clean nuclear power, from your kitchen scraps!
_________________ Follow my blog
www.thesinglebrother.com
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ecrabb Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006 Posts: 15909 Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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Link Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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I can't believe you guys would even consider buying cables that haven't been cryogenically treated. All the Icelandic oxygen-free silver wire in the world isn't worth a hill of beans, unless the molecules have been organized and aligned by cryogenic treatment. You can't have all those molecules in complete disarray - your music won't be subtle or spacious, your midrange won't be focused, and the sound won't be coherent!!!
Geez, why do I even bother with you guys!?!!?
SC
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Chuck27
Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 379 Location: Caledon Township, Ontario
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Link Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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ecrabb wrote: |
Geez, why do I even bother with you guys!?!!?
SC |
Because we ignorant, unwashed masses would wander aimlessly and undoubtedly end up with the wrong cable without your wise counsel.
Chuck
_________________ Chuck
using acreage for sound insulation since 1999
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emdawgz1
Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 7949
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Link Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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ecrabb wrote: | I can't believe you guys would even consider buying cables that haven't been cryogenically treated. All the Icelandic oxygen-free silver wire in the world isn't worth a hill of beans, unless the molecules have been organized and aligned by cryogenic treatment. You can't have all those molecules in complete disarray - your music won't be subtle or spacious, your midrange won't be focused, and the sound won't be coherent!!!
Geez, why do I even bother with you guys!?!!?
SC |
Leave the cryogenics to Michael Jackson!
Single grain, o2 free silver is the best!!!!
It is the solution developed by Dr E. Brown!
_________________ Follow my blog
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Z-Photo
Joined: 07 Mar 2006 Posts: 2753 Location: Huntsville - Alabama
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Link Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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ecrabb wrote: | I can't believe you guys would even consider buying cables that haven't been cryogenically treated. All the Icelandic oxygen-free silver wire in the world isn't worth a hill of beans, unless the molecules have been organized and aligned by cryogenic treatment. You can't have all those molecules in complete disarray - your music won't be subtle or spacious, your midrange won't be focused, and the sound won't be coherent!!!
Geez, why do I even bother with you guys!?!!?
SC |
lol-
cryo treatment of metals is done to force a phase transformation (typically retained austenite (soft) to martensite (hard)) in steels (tool/stainless/alloy)
- since you are talking about pure silver (ie single phase) - no phase transformation will happen.
If your silver wire is processed such that internal stresses are not relieved - then a typical heat-treatment will suffice.
_________________ Engineer by Day
Photographer by Night
My Portfolio
The Only GOOD AMPRO - is a Dead AMPRO.
wait - are they not all DEAD already?
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ecrabb Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006 Posts: 15909 Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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Link Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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Oh, man - I forgot a smiley or a wink. Looks like a couple of you thought I was actually serious about the cryogenic treatment and the heaped-on "audiophile adjectives". I thought I poured it on enough that it would be obvious I was full of sh*t. Upon rereading it, I see now it looked pretty much like a post you might actually see in some nutty esoteric audiophile tweaker forum. Oops! For the record, I was joking!
While we're OT with silly audiophile stuff, I'll share an image I created a few years ago. There was a thread on AVS where there was a discussion about crazy audiophile doodads... expensive tweaker doodads. Green markers, rocks, wooden knobs (seriously)... you know the stuff. Well, cable "elevators" came up (along with the predictable discussion about their dubiousness). It was these I think:
At least they're *only* $159 for a set of 8 - cheap by some crazy audio tweaker standards!!!
Anyway, in ripping apart the elevator product, somebody made reference to "some goddam cable fairies" - or the like - and I couldn't help myself.
I share with you, Cable Fairies... soon available in several sizes and colors - and various other states of undress. Your HT audio system will never sound the same with these babies on the floor. I'll have to get to work on an in-wall version.
SC
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AnalogRocks Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 26690 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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Link Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 3:29 am Post subject: |
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Z-Photo wrote: | ecrabb wrote: | I can't believe you guys would even consider buying cables that haven't been cryogenically treated. All the Icelandic oxygen-free silver wire in the world isn't worth a hill of beans, unless the molecules have been organized and aligned by cryogenic treatment. You can't have all those molecules in complete disarray - your music won't be subtle or spacious, your midrange won't be focused, and the sound won't be coherent!!!
Geez, why do I even bother with you guys!?!!?
SC |
lol-
cryo treatment of metals is done to force a phase transformation (typically retained austenite (soft) to martensite (hard)) in steels (tool/stainless/alloy)
- since you are talking about pure silver (ie single phase) - no phase transformation will happen.
If your silver wire is processed such that internal stresses are not relieved - then a typical heat-treatment will suffice. |
Exactly! That's why I say the refining process in Eastern Iceland is much better. You see the hot springs of the east are used to gently cool the cable as it comes out of the oven. This gradual cooling give the cable it's unique look.
Then in step 2 the cable spools are located in a gyser that erupts every 4 hours. This provides the high temperature steam heat treatment. The steam actually penetrates the pours of the silver and aligns the molecules from the INSIDE. So I say BAH! to weastern Icelandic calbes.
Go with the best. Go E.A.S.T. :
Eternal
Aligned
Silver
Technology
Everything else is just west.
_________________ Tech support for nothing
CRT.
HD done right!
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