CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

oliverg · Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 5:23 pm Post subject: HTPCs vs 'APPLIANCES'

This may cause a stir!

I have a HTPC setup - a really nice PC with an 8800GTX video card and Vista.

I also have a PS3/Blueray and a nice high end progressive scan DVD player.

I've just had a Barco 1209S that I had to give back and now I'm buying a 1209 off Curt.

I personally don't like the PC's video vs the video I get from the 'appliances'. Is it just me or is the HTPC setups in general unable to keep up with really good dedicated equipment?

Are people out there TRULY happy with their HTPC setups (is my 'purist' mindset clouding my subjective judgement as to what I am seeing??) or if push came to shove, would you prefer to have a 'high end' (eg an ES series Sony) BlueRay player inputting into a really nice Farujeda 1080p capable processor (budget allowing).

I'm really facinated to know! Smile

Kind regards

Tedd · Joined: 18 May 2006 Posts: 156 Location: Ontario

I think this is a case of hardware versus software, and the leapfrog game they play. At this point in time, hardware is ahead.

I am truly happy with my hybrid htpc dvd scaling solution. SDI'ed RP82 into Immersive Holo3Dgraph card, outputted by a MP-1 5BNC Radon 9800. This is the most appliance like htpc I have seen.

I don't think current htpc hardware is "ready for prime time" for high definition. The 8600 looked attractive enough, until I found out it was NOT powerstrip compatible. And no way to output high definition soundtracks.

For wav file playback, a htpc can be truly high end sound, with the right gear.

I find the addition of Bluray and HD DVD is really having an expensive effect on my av rack, trying to resort it all out. I just added a PS3 and love it, but my preamp has no hdmi input for high resolution soundtracks. So maybe the preamp goes (costly), and now I have no scaler for high defintion. I am hopeful the 1209S with a HDFury is good enough, with the PS3.

I wonder if there is one affordable solution that covers all bases nicely? I am hopeful that someone comes out with a hdmi sound breakout box with 7.1 analog output.

madpoet · Joined: 30 Mar 2006 Posts: 852

"And no way to output high definition soundtracks"

Sure there is... analog outs. Works just fine Smile

The panny BD10a will retail at $599 and might be found as low as $525. It's got analog outs and is a superb player. Combine it with an XA2 (also has analogs, is a great player, and upscaled SD DVDs like a champ) for somewhere int he $500 range and you're honestly doing better than most HTPCs. I love my HTPC hybrid player, but it was hellishly expensive when I built it and is still quirky.

Tedd · Joined: 18 May 2006 Posts: 156 Location: Ontario

I know analog works as I have an A1. I just hadn't seen that player yet. Nice to know. Thanks!

But it does serve to illustrate my comments about a constantly revolving av rack involving high definition. Smile

This could be an interesting upgrade. Sell 2 week old 20G PS3, buy a BD10a, sell HD-A1, buy HD-AX2, BUT I get to keep my existing preamp (big savings there!). And then sell off all the hd-htpc parts.....

...so when did you say the BD10A is out??????? Smile

Phil Smith · Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 7717

madpoet · Joined: 30 Mar 2006 Posts: 852

Just remember Phil... it's picky. Powerdvd 7.3 can require you to edit the files from ripped HD DVDs so they don't hang on the menu.

Person99 · Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 4901 Location: Flower Mound, TX

madpoet · Joined: 30 Mar 2006 Posts: 852

Nah, I had a VERY easy integratred setup for SD DVD. Cover art, auto slot selection, touchscreen interface. My 4 year old could use it.

Tedd · Joined: 18 May 2006 Posts: 156 Location: Ontario

Phil, I've seen FFdshow and TT and I'm not convinced it's light years ahead of what I already have. It is maybe a generation improved, but is it worth the step up, (considering expense) when I am going Bluray and HD DVD exclusively? To me, no. Not even when there is 90% of an overclocked E4300/GTS 8600 system in parts sitting around already... (BTW, I believe one can run one FFdshow filter with the H3D II, if memory serves correct, and I could always upgrade the video card.)

My year old A1 will be upgraded to an AX2, and it looks like a BP10a will replace the PS3. Htpc will be limited to music with a 15" tououchscreen.

Phil Smith · Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 7717

Tedd,

There are a million different ways to setup and use FFDshow. What my HTPC looked like a year ago running TT and FFDShow (before I upgrading to much faster everything), and what it looks like now is night and day difference, because now I can run much more CPU intensive filters in FFDShow. Unless you've seen a well set up, fast HTPC, running Limited Sharpen Faster or Seesaw with aggressive settings, you haven't seen what is possible now days. What you've seen and what I have are probably two entirely different things.

I barely have enough CPU speed to handle my current FFDShow settings, and I have a lot of CPU horsepower. I could still improve on what I have if I had more processing power, but since I'm switching over to HD-DVD, I'm not sure I need it.

Phil Smith · Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 7717

madpoet · Joined: 30 Mar 2006 Posts: 852

How often? Eh, maybe one out of every three Smile

How hard is it? Not particularly, you can just rip out all the stuff you don't need. It can take som hunting and pecking though to find the problem spots.

Phil Smith · Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 7717

Well Mad, that sounds like a pain in the ass. I guess one 1 out of 3 isn't so bad though. Hopefully SlySoft will fix that at some point.

My plan is to rent HD-DVD movies online and rent SD DVDs at my local Blockbuster store. I can get 3 HD and 3 SD movies (6 total) a week this way for $20 a month. That's why I like HTPCs. What I spend on my HTPC and hard drives, I more than make up for in movie costs savings.

oliverg · Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 6:53 pm Post subject:

PQ aside, there is something to be said for having 6 terrabyte drives in RAID5.

Storage Plus!

madpoet · Joined: 30 Mar 2006 Posts: 852

RAID5 is for wusses, go RAID4 Smile

I love my unRaid system.

Person99 · Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 4901 Location: Flower Mound, TX

**kal** · Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 12:35 am Post subject:

Mark_A_W · Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 2:49 am Post subject:

HTPC is the cheapest, most flexible way to get playback at a multiple of 24fps/25fps with custom res's. And you can rip a media library, skip warnings and play games.

Process external sources? What external sources? The PC does everything here in Oz except Foxtel, which looks like crap and isn't worth the bother.

Kal, one way to switch analogue 5.1 is to use a pair of component video switches.

Or just have one source - the PC.

Axatax · Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 6:30 am Post subject:

Both devices have their place. With a good HTPC, you're at the top of the heap for DVD performance and timeshifting.

The big issue with the HTPC is lack of options for interfacing external HD devices. This is mostly a philosophical issue, and depends on what you consider the job of an "HTPC" to be (it is an open-ended acronym). Do you need DVD playback, a media server, automation controller, jukebox, etc. It can perform all these roles very well.

oliverg · Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 5:36 pm Post subject:

Foxtel isn't that bad. Its hell better than analogue FTA, that's for sure!

Properly scaled, its quite acceptable.

Whilst I respect my HTPC, especially its ability to store content en masse - I would hate to have it as a primary/singular content delivery mechanism. Even with my high end video cards (8800GTXs) I find DVD, HD-DVD washed out and the whites and blacks crushed.

I've spent months calibrating it - I'm very I.T. competent having been an IT professional since 1980 in the old Apple II/midrange days. (yes, I remember what an acoustic coupler is!) I actually made a post about this topic on AVF and had this one guy tell me I 'obviously didn't know what I was doing' and being 'IT compentent is far from being a HTPC master' (I chuckled at that) but if it was to come to a 'HTPC off' between a 'htpc master's HTPC' and an appliance, I'm not convinced the high end appliance with a high end scaler wouldn't come out on top. The HTPC might even come a close second -but I honestly doubt 'first'. (I'm talking about PQ, not features)

Does this mean there's no place for a HTPC? Obviously not. Is the PQ acceptable? Absolutely. But as Axatax just mentioned - this is almost a philosophical issue. As a media server and a cheap way to scale, the HTPC definately has a valuable position in our HT arsenal.

Kind regards