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Signal Wars

 
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innof




Joined: 17 Mar 2006
Posts: 193



PostLink    Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 6:27 pm    Post subject: Signal Wars Reply with quote


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Hello folks. I hope that all is well.

I am looking for some insight as to how best address a tv signal issue. Basically, when viewing North American related content, all is fine in generating a wonderful 1080P picture on y Marquee 8500.

However, when I switch over to a foreign language channel, the image shrinks considerably and becomes somewhat distorted.

Is this due to the the broadcast format being employed (NTSC vs PAL)?

If so, is there a manner by which to have the signal always be generated to output a consistent 1080P "friendly" version?

Thank You!
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 17849
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What source are you using when you say "when I switch over to a foreign language channel"?

What H/V timings and other specs do you see on the Marquee when in the two "modes"?


Kal

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Tim in Phoenix




Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 4378
Location: Phoenix


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're holding out on us! LOL

What signals exactly from what devices? Radio frequency television? Are you running a Marquee decoder board? PAL? SECAM? Streamed? DVDs? Do the M8500 H Size and v Size values change? If ASR is on in the projector it may be grabbing the wrong memories.
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innof




Joined: 17 Mar 2006
Posts: 193



PostLink    Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2021 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good evening to you both Gentlemen! It is great to hear from each of you 🙂

I do sincerely beg your pardon for not properly qualifying the details at hand here as well as failing to adequately express the situation.

So, I essentially watch tv via an IPTV box. This device is fed to my Sony receiver via HDMI and then the receiver feds the signal directly to my Marquee 8500 into my Moome card (kindly confirmed by all of you as a version 2 model).

I just checked the projector and the system says that it is Version 4.

For instance, if I am watching NBC, the horizontal frequency is 67.5 kHz and the vertical frequency is 60 Hz.

However, of I change the channel to a British station (Sky), the projector automatically switches to a horizontal frequency of 56.25 kHz and 49.99 Hz for vertical (I an actually hear the projector making clicking noises).

Also. if I change channel to an Italian tv station (RAI), the projector automatically switches to a horizontal frequency of 56.25 and a vertical frequency of 50 Hz.

Why is it doing this?

Incidentally, the ASR if set to "OFF" (I do not know what this is for....).

Thank you again. I really want to get this issue sorted out; As it stands, I barely have access to 10% of the available programming.

Cheers!
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gjaky




Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Posts: 2789
Location: Budapest, Hungary


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2021 5:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The mains frequency on the continental Europe is 50Hz, in England and USA (and a lot of other places too) it is 60Hz. For legacy reasons the field rate of TV channels are synced to the mains frequency (of their origin).
Both signal are 1080P but one has 50Hz refresh rate the other has 60Hz refresh rate.

ASR stands for Automatic Source Recall, it senses whenever the input parameters are changed and tries to select the most appropriate convergence setting from your recall list.

You have to create a separate recall memory for the 60Hz stations and for the european (50Hz) stations on your Marquee, then turn on ASR, and you'll be fine.

_________________
projectors in the past : NEC 6-9PG xtra, Electrohome Marquee 6-7500, NEC XG 1351 LC ( with super modified Electrohome VNB neckboard !!!)
current: VDC Marquee 9500LC
The MOD: VNB-DB, VIM-DB
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 17849
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2021 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What gjaky said... that's why I was asking about the H/V frequencies of the signal. I figured they must be different which you need separate setups in the projector. I've never owned a Marquee but I imagine you can take the setup for one freq set and copy it over and then just have to tweak it slightly?

Kal

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Tim in Phoenix




Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 4378
Location: Phoenix


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2021 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"I imagine you can take the setup for one freq set and copy it over and then just have to tweak it slightly? "


Something like that. Marquees bandswitch at 59khz so width jumps around. Or use Channel Numbers to select different memories.

PM me with your e.mail if you want this in a Word doc.


This really is pretty simple. Each "port" or input to the projector has its' own memory, Source 01 (a.k.a. "S01") for the first RGBHV port, S02 for the second port if installed, S03, S04, S05, and S06 if the decoder is used. If one has a Marquee switcher then the ports are S11, S12 and so on, depending on which slots have input cards installed. A "Memory" is all the keyed in adjustments made to optimize a given signal, these include Contrast, Brightness, H Size, V Size, Convergence, Keystone, Pin, Phase. If you have need for multiple setups with one port, then Recallable Memories, or "Recalls" can be employed; they replace the port memories when needed. Source or Recall memories can be copied back and forth in Utilities. To go to a given input, you would push "Source 01" or "Source 02" and the projector switches to that port. If you also need a Recall memory 03 for that signal you must also push "Recall 03"; that is a total of six button presses; you are at risk of spilling your beer in a dark room! ASR, or Auto Source Recall, can be switched on for any port; with ASR on, the signal being viewed is clocked for its' H and V scan rate (see ** for scan rate readout) and compared to the lists of existing memories for an exact match. If a match is found then that memory is brought up. If the scan rate falls in between two existing setups, then ASI happens; "Auto Source Interpolation", an average of the settings of the two memories are employed and stored temporarily in the working memory of what is displayed right now. Since this is not a distinct discrete memory itself, adjustments made during ASI are not saveable for later. If you have several aspect ratios happening at the same scan rates then you do not want to use ASR, it cannot tell which aspect memory to bring up, it will only grab the last one you adjusted. In this case, leave ASR off, and program your inputs and recalls into the Channel List (see UTIL 2) This allows for input and recall memory selection, once it is programmed, by one or two button presses.

Your situation is best managed by use of Channel Numbers, as are the needs for most HTs:

As to employing Channel Numbers, set up your channel list something like
this if using a scaler with passthru:

Ch.......Name..............Input......Recall

01.......DVD 4:3.............01..........01

02.......DVD 16:9...........01..........02

03.......DVD 2.35...........01..........03

04.......Sat 4:3................01..........04

05.......Sat 16:9...............01..........05

or like this if satellite is the projectors' 02 input:

Ch.......Name.............Input.......Recall

01.......DVD 4:3............ 01..........01

02.......DVD 16:9...........01..........02

03.......DVD 2.35...........01..........03

04.......Sat 4:3................02..........04

05.......Sat 16:9...............02..........05

Find Preferences in the Util menu and set for single digit channel select. When you select a given source, push 1,2,3 or 4 on the Marquee remote and you will pull up the appropriate memory bank. Dial in the alignments for each memory and you are all set.





Tim Martin, E-Tech Systems Scottsdale

480 253 2781 please text me first

ehometech8022@yahoo.com
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gjaky




Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Posts: 2789
Location: Budapest, Hungary


PostLink    Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tim in Phoenix wrote:
"I imagine you can take the setup for one freq set and copy it over and then just have to tweak it slightly? "


Something like that. Marquees bandswitch at 59khz so width jumps around. Or use Channel Numbers to select different memories.

PM me with your e.mail if you want this in a Word doc.


This really is pretty simple. Each "port" or input to the projector has its' own memory, Source 01 (a.k.a. "S01") for the first RGBHV port, S02 for the second port if installed, S03, S04, S05, and S06 if the decoder is used. If one has a Marquee switcher then the ports are S11, S12 and so on, depending on which slots have input cards installed. A "Memory" is all the keyed in adjustments made to optimize a given signal, these include Contrast, Brightness, H Size, V Size, Convergence, Keystone, Pin, Phase. If you have need for multiple setups with one port, then Recallable Memories, or "Recalls" can be employed; they replace the port memories when needed. Source or Recall memories can be copied back and forth in Utilities. To go to a given input, you would push "Source 01" or "Source 02" and the projector switches to that port. If you also need a Recall memory 03 for that signal you must also push "Recall 03"; that is a total of six button presses; you are at risk of spilling your beer in a dark room! ASR, or Auto Source Recall, can be switched on for any port; with ASR on, the signal being viewed is clocked for its' H and V scan rate (see ** for scan rate readout) and compared to the lists of existing memories for an exact match. If a match is found then that memory is brought up. If the scan rate falls in between two existing setups, then ASI happens; "Auto Source Interpolation", an average of the settings of the two memories are employed and stored temporarily in the working memory of what is displayed right now. Since this is not a distinct discrete memory itself, adjustments made during ASI are not saveable for later. If you have several aspect ratios happening at the same scan rates then you do not want to use ASR, it cannot tell which aspect memory to bring up, it will only grab the last one you adjusted. In this case, leave ASR off, and program your inputs and recalls into the Channel List (see UTIL 2) This allows for input and recall memory selection, once it is programmed, by one or two button presses.

Your situation is best managed by use of Channel Numbers, as are the needs for most HTs:

As to employing Channel Numbers, set up your channel list something like
this if using a scaler with passthru:

Ch.......Name..............Input......Recall

01.......DVD 4:3.............01..........01

02.......DVD 16:9...........01..........02

03.......DVD 2.35...........01..........03

04.......Sat 4:3................01..........04

05.......Sat 16:9...............01..........05

or like this if satellite is the projectors' 02 input:

Ch.......Name.............Input.......Recall

01.......DVD 4:3............ 01..........01

02.......DVD 16:9...........01..........02

03.......DVD 2.35...........01..........03

04.......Sat 4:3................02..........04

05.......Sat 16:9...............02..........05

Find Preferences in the Util menu and set for single digit channel select. When you select a given source, push 1,2,3 or 4 on the Marquee remote and you will pull up the appropriate memory bank. Dial in the alignments for each memory and you are all set.





Tim Martin, E-Tech Systems Scottsdale

480 253 2781 please text me first

ehometech8022@yahoo.com


I could be wrong, but for me it looks like, he use a single source for input the IPTV box, but the TV channels have different scan frequency based on their field rate 50Hz vs. 60Hz but all of them 1080P, hence 16:9.
In my opinion this can be handled best with the recall memories and ASR turned on. If he has two recall memories, each for 50Hz and 60Hz programmes, then ASR will recognize the appropriate settings and there is no need to press buttons on the remote afterwards.

_________________
projectors in the past : NEC 6-9PG xtra, Electrohome Marquee 6-7500, NEC XG 1351 LC ( with super modified Electrohome VNB neckboard !!!)
current: VDC Marquee 9500LC
The MOD: VNB-DB, VIM-DB
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innof




Joined: 17 Mar 2006
Posts: 193



PostLink    Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 3:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello again to everyone. Well, the great news here is that, a viable solution to resolve my issue is possible which is wonderful.

Now, I just need to sort out how to accomplish its implementation.

And, if this can be accomplished without having to manipulate any buttons on the remote, then that would be absolutely ideal where the projector would automatically detect the change in frequency due to a foreign channel and accordingly compensate.

I am extremely grateful for everyone's insights and guidance to date.

Cheers!
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Tim in Phoenix




Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 4378
Location: Phoenix


PostLink    Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Simple.

If all your viewing is signals into a Moome card, set up Source 02.......Recall 01 and Source 02.......Recall 02; delete all other Recalls and turn on ASR as there would be no need to push Channel buttons.

To enable this, turn ASR off and bring up your 60hz signal into the Moome , select a Recall and dial in for 60hz.

For the second Recall, select that Recall and bring in your 50hz signal and dial that in. Last thing, turn on ASR.

If you are running BluRay, bring that signal in to the other HDMI port; ASR should grab your 60hz Recall.


If you also have an RGB source then consider using Channels.
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innof




Joined: 17 Mar 2006
Posts: 193



PostLink    Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gentlemen - A Very Sincere note of gratitude to Everyone! Thank you very much indeed, it seems as though I somehow managed to navigate through this procedure and it appears to work well 👍

Based on the last posts contributed, I can now switch channels from "domestic" to "foreign" an the projector is automatically recognizing the corresponding set-up ⭐

I will need to continue doing some fine tuning but, in principle, all is copacetic so far 🙂

Do have a splendid weekend.
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