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Hypothesis: Tone Mapped HDR with Lumagen and CRT Projectors?
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walteritaly




Joined: 21 Mar 2020
Posts: 83
Location: Italy


PostLink    Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote


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I'm doing a little reasoning on self-calibration:

I think we should have the possibility to calibrate the colorimetry starting from the source,
useless to calibrate correctly starting from the video processor excluding the source, this would not make sense ...

In my opinion you should have a disk combined with software and probe to insert into the player or source, this disk should send test signals and a code to the video processor software which will start the measurement as soon as it receives it ... .

by doing so you would have the certainty of correctly calibrating the entire video chain.

Otherwise it would be necessary to have a probe combined with the projector that with the processor software reads and corrects in real time and continuously everything that happens on the screen ...

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ElTopo




Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1607



PostLink    Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

4K UHD discs look amazing on CRT in combination with an Oppo203 !
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CIR Engineering




Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4264
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany


PostLink    Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2021 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

walteritaly wrote:
I'm doing a little reasoning on self-calibration:

I think we should have the possibility to calibrate the colorimetry starting from the source,
useless to calibrate correctly starting from the video processor excluding the source, this would not make sense ...

In my opinion you should have a disk combined with software and probe to insert into the player or source, this disk should send test signals and a code to the video processor software which will start the measurement as soon as it receives it ... .

by doing so you would have the certainty of correctly calibrating the entire video chain.

Otherwise it would be necessary to have a probe combined with the projector that with the processor software reads and corrects in real time and continuously everything that happens on the screen ...

I'm not quite sure what this has to do with this thread, but yes the projector should absolutely be fully calibrated before any type of calibration is attempted upstream. On front projection CRT this typically means black point, while point, grayscale, and gamma on projectors with the adjustment. Then you may consider touching up the gamma and grayscale then. If using a RED celement, you may use a Lumagen to desaturate red some to bring the primary more inline with Rec709.

craigr

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CIR Engineering




Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4264
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany


PostLink    Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2021 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ElTopo wrote:
4K UHD discs look amazing on CRT in combination with an Oppo203 !

What was the final result with Oppo regarding tone mapping? Is the player actually tone mapping, or is it simply cropping the lumance to fit? I suppose I could check this out on my 205, but it would require effort Laughing

craigr

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Klein K10-A Colorimeter
X-Rite i1Pro2 Spectroradiometer & Spyder Colorimeters *For JVC auto-calibration when Klein & Jeti are not applicable
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
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*NEW Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Version β Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
*NEW OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
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Phone: 865-405-6892
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ElTopo




Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1607



PostLink    Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2021 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey craigr,

the Oppo is doing the tone mapping.

Do you have a chance to play with one ?

These seem to climb up in $ as they are nearly sold out.

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CIR Engineering




Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4264
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany


PostLink    Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2021 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ElTopo wrote:
Hey craigr,

the Oppo is doing the tone mapping.

Do you have a chance to play with one ?

These seem to climb up in $ as they are nearly sold out.

I own a 205 with the jailbreak firmware myself. I never played with the tone mapping in it because I've always had the Lumagen. As you point out, the Oppo's have gotten expensive and fewer of my clients have them anymore, but almost all have a Lumagen so...

_________________
*NEW JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
X-Rite i1Pro2 Spectroradiometer & Spyder Colorimeters *For JVC auto-calibration when Klein & Jeti are not applicable
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
*NEW Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Version β Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
*NEW OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying Wink
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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pureaudio




Joined: 29 Mar 2015
Posts: 37



PostLink    Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2021 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If considering dropping the money for a Lumagen pro, go check out some new projectors first, maybe a JVC RS1000. A good 9" CRT projector max out around 400 Ansi lumen, so to get enough light on screen you need a quite small screen, no Lumagen can compensate for the lack of light output in the projector, on top of that CRT gets softer and more washed out the harder you run it, the best solution for CRT is still 1080P SDR Rec 709.
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CIR Engineering




Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4264
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany


PostLink    Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pureaudio wrote:
If considering dropping the money for a Lumagen pro, go check out some new projectors first, maybe a JVC RS1000. A good 9" CRT projector max out around 400 Ansi lumen, so to get enough light on screen you need a quite small screen, no Lumagen can compensate for the lack of light output in the projector, on top of that CRT gets softer and more washed out the harder you run it, the best solution for CRT is still 1080P SDR Rec 709.

Certainly worth considering as the current JVC line is very nice. I would however strongly suggest going to the RS-2000 / NX7 over the RS-1000 / NX5. The NX7 and higher have color filtration to allow full DCI-P3 colors where the 1000 does not have the filtration and thus does not make a much larger gamut than Rec709. To me, one of the biggest upgrades to UHD is the larger DCI-P3 color gamut and you will not get that the with RS-1000 / NX5.

The NX5, NX7, and NX9 are all built on identical chassis. The NX5 lacks the color filter for full DCI-P3, but it and the NX7 share the same optics. The NX9 also has the color filter but also has much better optics (and a few other marketing features like 8k e-shift). The best bang for the buck squarely falls on the NX7.

All that aside, it's a moot point because JVC can't build anymore projectors because of parts shortages due to COVID and they are all sold out. In December, JVC said more projectors would be available in February, but now they are projecting another 60 days. Who knows if that will happen. I sold the last NX9 that WAVE had in stock back before New Years and that was only because JVC allocated like four more units to sell. They ran out of NX7's long before that. If you want a JVC now and see one available grab it because there aren't going to be more very soon.

craigr

_________________
*NEW JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
X-Rite i1Pro2 Spectroradiometer & Spyder Colorimeters *For JVC auto-calibration when Klein & Jeti are not applicable
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
*NEW Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Version β Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
*NEW OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying Wink
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 17850
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7


PostLink    Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CIR Engineering wrote:
The best bang for the buck squarely falls on the NX7.

Agreed. If I was replacing my JVC RS-56 today, it would be with the NX7 (aka RS2000) ... assuming it's even available. Wink

Kal

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CIR Engineering




Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4264
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany


PostLink    Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
CIR Engineering wrote:
The best bang for the buck squarely falls on the NX7.

Agreed. If I was replacing my JVC RS-56 today, it would be with the NX7 (aka RS2000) ... assuming it's even available. Wink

Kal

I've sold sooo many NX7 + Radiance PRO's I can't even remember and also quite a few NX9 Lumagen combos. The NX7 and NX9 look almost identical once calibrated. Both are very potent combinations.

One thing I failed to mention on the NX9 is that the dynamic iris is much better than the NX7 or NX5, if you want to use it. JVC says it's the same system on the NX7 and NX9, but not to my eye and the difference isn't subtle. Right now my advice on the NX7 is to not use the dynamic iris at all, but on the NX9 to consider using it for SDR (and possibly HDR if you are not using a Lumagen in combination).

craigr

_________________
*NEW JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
X-Rite i1Pro2 Spectroradiometer & Spyder Colorimeters *For JVC auto-calibration when Klein & Jeti are not applicable
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
*NEW Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Version β Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
*NEW OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying Wink
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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