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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5681
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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 Link Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 10:40 pm Post subject: Need suggestions on 40' cable run from rack to projector |
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A friend of mine is mounting a digital projector and it'll be 35' from the rack where his equipment is housed. I'm somewhat skeptical to go with an HDMI cable at maybe a 40' length, not knowing if they have improved on the distance. My other thought is a cat6 (shielded) run using the HDMI converters. This system I'm more familiar with from the work I used to do. But not sure about 4K if that's what will be sent to the projector.
Any thoughts?
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jask
Joined: 17 Mar 2006
Posts: 10165
Location: kamloops BC
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| Link Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 7:35 am Post subject: |
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Cat 6 has the bandwidth and plenty of vendors make great gear that meet 2nd gen. HD baseT specs.
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5681
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Link Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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| jask wrote: | | Cat 6 has the bandwidth and plenty of vendors make great gear that meet 2nd gen. HD baseT specs. |
Thanks man that was a real perfect. I've only seen HD over cat6 on one of my commercial jobs but never knew how they did it.
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4264
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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| Link Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 2:36 am Post subject: |
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Mike get a Ruipro fiber optic HDMI cable on Amazon (only authorized resellers in the USA). They are cheap and work splendidly on any resolution up to 4K 60Hz 422 (18 GHz). I pretty much insist that my clients use these exclusively with both CRT and digital projectors. They solve sooo many problems and ALWAYS work great. Usually there is also a coupon on their Amazon page for a discount too.
https://www.amazon.com/RUIPRO-Supports-HDMI2-0b-4K60HZ-Bandwidth/dp/B07B7JT3GC/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=ll1&tag=curtpalmecrtp-20&linkId=c2a8772a9c3f015dd002010898014214&language=en_US
The only other cable that performs as well is the monoprice optical HDMI but it’s the same price and the build quality isn’t quite as good.
craig
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 17859
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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jask
Joined: 17 Mar 2006
Posts: 10165
Location: kamloops BC
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| Link Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 4:33 am Post subject: |
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I have not used them, similar BW with all the goodness of fiber speed! Do they use an external power supply or parasitic/phantom power?.. Any issues with legacy or low power HDMI? I noticed most sizes in the link are sold out but was able to find stock on a Amazon.ca vendor site. I was also wondering about the cable being directional..? Assume this is simply a matter of the send end of the cable needing power?.. as HDMI is bidirectional by design..?
Not cheaper but less things to go wrong if they address the issue! And it sounds like a better option on very long runs..
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4264
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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| Link Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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| jask wrote: | I have not used them, similar BW with all the goodness of fiber speed! Do they use an external power supply or parasitic/phantom power?.. Any issues with legacy or low power HDMI? I noticed most sizes in the link are sold out but was able to find stock on a Amazon.ca vendor site. I was also wondering about the cable being directional..? Assume this is simply a matter of the send end of the cable needing power?.. as HDMI is bidirectional by design..?
Not cheaper but less things to go wrong if they address the issue! And it sounds like a better option on very long runs.. |
The Ruipro cables do not require external power; they use the 5v HDMI line. As such there is a possibility of issues if the source does not supply enough power per HDMI specification. I have never had this issue however on any installation.
Tributary makes a decent fiber cable that uses an external power supply. It costs 4x more and they tend to sometimes have problems. I don't know if Tributary has ever fixed it, but their external power supply needed to be upgraded most of the time because it didn't provide enough power  Most vendors unlike me recommend the Tributary because there is a 50 point mark up and they make a few hundred bucks selling the cable. The Ruipro is better though.
I have had zero issues with legacy on the Ruipro and use it on my G90 and another on my NX9. It made a huge difference on my G90 reliably synicing quickly to HDMI sources on the Moome card. I have had so many clients with both CRT and digital switch to these Ruipro cables who were having connectivity issues and every time the client reports back, "it's like magic, everything works now." The Sony 5000 is a prime example as it's terrible for syncing with HDMI, but works well with the Ruipro.
All the fiberoptic HDMI cables are directional and must be installed the correct direction. I had a client last year who installed one backwards 
There is zero latency issues. Literally, these are so fast they are not at all consequential to any application in terms of latency.
I am sure Amazon will have them is stock again soon if they are out. I did see last night that both the 13 meter and 15 meter were in stock (for Mike's friend) and there was also a 10% off coupon on the Amazon web page. Stock was low on both though.
craigr
_________________
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Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
*NEW Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Version β Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
*NEW OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
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www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5681
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Link Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Craig, but it was my intent to not go with fiber, and that's because some bad experiences with in in commercial applications. At one point they corrected the cables saying it now has an fiberglass sleeve that protects it. It appears that the cable would become problematic after stretching or if it gets pinched to scared. So the loose sleeve was supposed to correct the problem.
I should think by now things would have gotten better with fiber, but had no way of knowing until you posted this. I have seen the fiber that seems to connect right at the HDMI connector, but would have a hard time believing that would be ok, knowing the fiber I saw used in commercial applications had a significant size box on both ends.
Anyway, that they sent me Louisiana, they were using video over cat6. If done correctly it is flawless, meaning they had to order it in custom lengths. And they were using shielded cat6, and that shielding presented a problem if you want to crimp it yourself. It really works flawless if the ordered custom and tested cat6.
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4264
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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| Link Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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| mp20748 wrote: | Thanks Craig, but it was my intent to not go with fiber, and that's because some bad experiences with in in commercial applications. At one point they corrected the cables saying it now has an fiberglass sleeve that protects it. It appears that the cable would become problematic after stretching or if it gets pinched to scared. So the loose sleeve was supposed to correct the problem.
I should think by now things would have gotten better with fiber, but had no way of knowing until you posted this. I have seen the fiber that seems to connect right at the HDMI connector, but would have a hard time believing that would be ok, knowing the fiber I saw used in commercial applications had a significant size box on both ends.
Anyway, that they sent me Louisiana, they were using video over cat6. If done correctly it is flawless, meaning they had to order it in custom lengths. And they were using shielded cat6, and that shielding presented a problem if you want to crimp it yourself. It really works flawless if the ordered custom and tested cat6. |
I've done a lot of runs with both fiber and CAT6 over the past ~10 years. CAT6 used to work better especially with HDBaseT, but it has been eclipsed by good fiber options like the Ruipro or Monoprice. Not all fiber is equal and a lot of other brands are problematic, but those two cables have severed reliably for me and others for years (especially the Ruipro). You can bend them, stretch them, kink them, and they keep going. I prefer the Ruipro, Kris Deering prefers the Monoprice, but if you look at the data analysis on either they are both working well up to about 100' at 18 GHz while other brands can't even pull 18 GHz at all past 40'.
Good luck on the project Mike.
craigr
_________________
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Klein K10-A Colorimeter
X-Rite i1Pro2 Spectroradiometer & Spyder Colorimeters *For JVC auto-calibration when Klein & Jeti are not applicable
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
*NEW Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Version β Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
*NEW OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
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www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5681
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Link Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2020 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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| CIR Engineering wrote: | | mp20748 wrote: | Thanks Craig, but it was my intent to not go with fiber, and that's because some bad experiences with in in commercial applications. At one point they corrected the cables saying it now has an fiberglass sleeve that protects it. It appears that the cable would become problematic after stretching or if it gets pinched to scared. So the loose sleeve was supposed to correct the problem.
I should think by now things would have gotten better with fiber, but had no way of knowing until you posted this. I have seen the fiber that seems to connect right at the HDMI connector, but would have a hard time believing that would be ok, knowing the fiber I saw used in commercial applications had a significant size box on both ends.
Anyway, that they sent me Louisiana, they were using video over cat6. If done correctly it is flawless, meaning they had to order it in custom lengths. And they were using shielded cat6, and that shielding presented a problem if you want to crimp it yourself. It really works flawless if the ordered custom and tested cat6. |
I've done a lot of runs with both fiber and CAT6 over the past ~10 years. CAT6 used to work better especially with HDBaseT, but it has been eclipsed by good fiber options like the Ruipro or Monoprice. Not all fiber is equal and a lot of other brands are problematic, but those two cables have severed reliably for me and others for years (especially the Ruipro). You can bend them, stretch them, kink them, and they keep going. I prefer the Ruipro, Kris Deering prefers the Monoprice, but if you look at the data analysis on either they are both working well up to about 100' at 18 GHz while other brands can't even pull 18 GHz at all past 40'.
Good luck on the project Mike.
craigr |
Hey Craig, the guy was good going with cat6, but when he purchased his equipment they suggested fiber. But much as you indicated, it has had problems working out as stable. The guy is an IT specialist and when he had his house built he had them run cat6 thru-out. So he likes the cable. He was telling me about cat7 and cat8, both I know nothing about or that they existed.
Nothing over 100' on runs, and the cat6 is rated at 500mhz.
I have been planning to call you to talk about your experience with the Android Media Players. I picked up one real cheap on Ebay to replace the one I was using to play music only. I had purchased a few of these really cheap ($29.00) media players thinking since its all done in digital that there should not be a noticeable change in performance. Boy was I wrong.
I ended up winning an Android Media Player for $7.00 shipped that listed 3 years ago for $450.00 new. Took a few minutes to get familiar with it, but was able to at least access music I had purchased off Amazon. The thing outperforms my CD player when playing the same songs burnt to CD. But what really got my attention after playing around and downloading video material and movies, the video performance blows away my best Blu Ray player.
I've not connected it to the Marquee, which has for some years not been used , and may never be used going forward. But I was wanting to call you to discuss this media player, that I'm using in the family room on a cheap no name 50' flat TV we received as a gift two years ago. We have been using flat screen TV's only sourced to Firesticks. On yesterday when a friend was over I was showing off my new media player, I switch from the Firestick source to the media player and my friend noticed how much better the image was. I'll try and call you this weekend.
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4264
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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| Link Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2020 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, 4k over CAT6 hasn't been stable. It does depend on your hardware though and I think some solutions work better than others. I just got sick of the crap shoot so always use the Ruipro and never have any problems with any projectors, TV's, or sources.
Give me a ring man, I've been wanting to talk to you too. I did have a Marquee question for you, but the client decided to upgrade to an NX9. I just hope JVC has one in stock I can order Monday as they were down to three units left in the whole USA on Thursday. No more until at least February due to COVID.
craigr
_________________
*NEW JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
X-Rite i1Pro2 Spectroradiometer & Spyder Colorimeters *For JVC auto-calibration when Klein & Jeti are not applicable
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
*NEW Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Version β Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
*NEW OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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asq19
Joined: 06 Oct 2021
Posts: 2
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| Link Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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I haven't tried the Ruipro, but the pricing is definitely better then the balun option. I have used various baluns, and good ones will support 4K, but they can be 6X this price. For $60, this option looks great.
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4264
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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| Link Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2021 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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| asq19 wrote: | | I haven't tried the Ruipro, but the pricing is definitely better then the balun option. I have used various baluns, and good ones will support 4K, but they can be 6X this price. For $60, this option looks great. |
Totally agree. There are plenty of expensive HDBaseT type options that work (I am using one now for my kitchen TV for HD only) and work well. I just got sick of the high prices and unknowns with iit.
Also, the 4K Rupro cables have tanked in price since the 8K cables came out making them a better bargain. Don't buy the 8K version, they are more expensive and do not work as reliably.
craigr
_________________
*NEW JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
X-Rite i1Pro2 Spectroradiometer & Spyder Colorimeters *For JVC auto-calibration when Klein & Jeti are not applicable
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
*NEW Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Version β Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
*NEW OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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