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None of the mid-range AVRs have preouts anymore

 
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WanMan




Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10273



PostLink    Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2020 9:22 pm    Post subject: None of the mid-range AVRs have preouts anymore Reply with quote


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Things have changed, and for the worse, over the decade I spent happily with my home theater setup. Recently I went and bought a new TV that was enough of a critical change it can be used for critical viewing. But I had no AVR in the house that could do 4K. Initially, I just plugged the 4K sources into the TV directly, using the eARC channel (designated HDMI) to back feed audio only to discover my AVR didn't support ARC, let alone eARC. I had to settle for DD, or DD+, or whatever SPDIF optical out afforded me.

This lead me to go looking at AVRs in the $600-900 range and to my shock none of them had preouts. Only the high end models by manufacturers had them. Way back in 2009 I made the move to buy into separates but used mid-range AVRs as a Prepro because actual prepro products were absurdly price, IMO. I guess something had changed in the past decade that makers chose to remove unamplified channel outputs unless you are willing to pay $1K or more.

I always thought--without solid knowledge--the processing stage and the amplification stage were two separate sections of the same PCB, or even different PCBs. I had not considered now that the processing and amplification is done in an integrated fashion to where one couldn't simply cable-out the processed signals just prior to inputting them into an amplification stage.

Does anyone know how to determine this, and if anyone runs a side business of making a preout breakout block modification where the tapped into (soldered)?

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kal
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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
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Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56


PostLink    Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2020 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think it's so much that they *can't* put pre-outs on an AVR, but that people at a certain price point just don't want or need them. Removing half a dozen to a dozen RCA/phono connectors on the back of the unit saves a few bucks and if few people want them, why bump up the price? Keeping certain features off the lower end models also forces people to "buy up" too which the manufacturer of course wants.

What about a low end pre-pro (no amps) instead of an AVR. By the very definition it has to have pre-outs otherwise it's kinda pointless. Wink

Example: https://emotiva.com/collections/processors/products/mc-700 ($699 at this time)

Kal

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Last edited by kal on Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 23994
Location: Langley, BC

TV/Projector: All of them!


PostLink    Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's called cutting corners. I am using a top of the line Onkyo from about 8 years ago that I had repaired under their extended warranty. $1400 new, and I picked it up at the local recycler. Onkyo discontinued that program in Dec 2019, but I got mine (and about 8 others that I ended up selling) done at no charge.

If you don't need Atmos, I may still have an Onkyo repaired unit here with preamp outs.. I think.
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CIR Engineering




Joined: 25 Aug 2008
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Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany

TV/Projector: JVC NX9 + Paladin DCR & Sony G90 : Lumagen Radiance Pro


PostLink    Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lexicon like the RV-9 has them and I'm pretty sure Marantz as well.

craigr

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kal
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PostLink    Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CIR Engineering wrote:
Lexicon like the RV-9 has them

Not sure I'd call that a mid-range AVR. Wink

Kal

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CIR Engineering




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PostLink    Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
CIR Engineering wrote:
Lexicon like the RV-9 has them

Not sure I'd call that a mid-range AVR. Wink

Kal

True...

I have a dealer demo that is in perfect condition with full warranty that I can do really cheap though! High end and mid-fi prices Mr. Green

craigr

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kal
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TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56


PostLink    Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Go for it Wan! That's an excellent AVR.

Kal

P.S. I've been eye-balling the Anthem AVM70 myself: https://www.anthemav.com/products-current/type=av-processor/model=avm-70/page=overview
(I'm seriously due... I'm still running an Acurus ACT-3 from the late 90s myself Shocked (lossy DD/DTS 5.1 only))

Kal

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Last edited by kal on Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
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WanMan




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PostLink    Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The MC-700 does not offer HDMI 2.1, so no 4K60, let alone 4K120. BTW, I found that Monoprice, somewhere we all went to for cheap stuff, selling a surround processor for $4K! Even they went upscale.
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kal
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TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56


PostLink    Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WanMan wrote:
The MC-700 does not offer HDMI 2.1, so no 4K60, let alone 4K120. BTW, I found that Monoprice, somewhere we all went to for cheap stuff, selling a surround processor for $4K! Even they went upscale.

Yep, and it's getting pretty good reviews too: https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=37887

Kal

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CIR Engineering




Joined: 25 Aug 2008
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PostLink    Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WanMan wrote:
The MC-700 does not offer HDMI 2.1, so no 4K60, let alone 4K120. BTW, I found that Monoprice, somewhere we all went to for cheap stuff, selling a surround processor for $4K! Even they went upscale.

I talked to Kris Deering while he was reviewing Monoprice's new top of the line, and he was floored with how great it is. He can't believe the price point and capability of the thing. He's not the type to open a unit so he couldn't comment on build quality, but like I say, he was blown away with the value per dollars and that it was simply so good. I did not get a final opinion before he sent it back to them though.

craigr

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Last edited by CIR Engineering on Thu Dec 17, 2020 3:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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CIR Engineering




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Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany

TV/Projector: JVC NX9 + Paladin DCR & Sony G90 : Lumagen Radiance Pro


PostLink    Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is the lexicon I have a demo unit of:
https://www.lexicon.com/products/receivers/RV-9.html

It has HDMI 2.0a. It's the same thing as the MC-10 pre/pro (I own this) except with amps and minus the XLR outputs.

craigr

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JETI Specbos 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Laboratory Grade Colorimeter
X-Rite i1Pro2 Spectroradiometer & Spyder Colorimeters for JVC auto-calibration
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
*NEW Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Version β Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
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www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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