Return to the CurtPalme.com main site CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum
A forum with a sense of fun and community for Home Theater enthusiasts!
Products for Sale ] [ FAQ: Hooking it all up ] [ CRT Primer/FAQ ] [ Best/Worst CRT Projectors List ] [ Setup Tips & Manuals ] [ Advanced Procedures ] [ Newsletters ]

 
Forum FAQForum FAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist  Photo AlbumsPhoto Albums  RegisterRegister 
 MembershipClub Membership   ProfileProfile   Private MessagesPrivate Messages   Log inLog in 
Blu-ray disc release list and must-have titles. Buy the latest and best Blu-ray titles to show off in your home theater!


Fixing the DVI signal from an Atari 8 bit computer, how?
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer-friendly view    CurtPalme.com Forum Index -> Video Processors, Converters, Switchers, Cables
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
jowi



Joined: 14 May 2006
Posts: 83



PostLink    Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 11:28 am    Post subject: Fixing the DVI signal from an Atari 8 bit computer, how? Reply with quote


        Register to remove this ad. It's free!
I've recently bought an Atari 600XL 8 bit computer from the 80's these 'beasts' have RF and composite on board, but an enthousiast from the Atari 8 bit scene designed an expansion board that adds a razorsharp DVI output on the machine, in 1280x960@50hz, 1280x1024@50hz or 1600x900@50hz. The guy is limited by the hardware in what he can do with the output signal, he can't just create every signal. This is about it.

Now, the thing is that not every monitor or tv accepts the signal from the DVI board... my Acer S243HL monitor and my Pioneer Kuro 600M (Elite) can't cope with it at all. The image is placed on the left-top of the screen, and it even looks like that the Kuro thinks it's a 1920x1080 picture... Even the HDFury Vertex says 'user format' and can't properly handle it. The JVC-X7500 just shows a black screen. No signal...





(yellowing is not added, it is the actual signal, sometimes it is black, or white, or distorted like the 1st picture) maybe this is caused by the sidebar settings in the kuro's factory menu.



I've asked for more info on the signal, and according to the specs it is not that weird i would say:

Code:

Main parameters of the Sophia's DVI 1280x960 resolution on the PAL system are:

Horizontal pixels = 1280
Vertical pixels = 960
Horizontal frequency = 62.2kHz
Vertical frequency = 49.86Hz
Pixel clock = 113.5MHz
Horizontal polarity = negative
Vertical polarity = negative
Scan type = noninterlaced

Horizontal total time = 1824 pixels
Horizontal address time = 1280 pixels
Horizontal front porch = 112 pixels
Horizontal sync time = 160 pixels
Horizontal back porch = 272 pixels

Vertical total time = 1248 lines
Vertical address time = 960 lines
Vertical front porch = 3 lines
Vertical sync time = 3 lines
Vertical back porch = 282 lines


I do have an HP LP2465 monitor that does display the output perfectly... so it can be done:





But i would really like to display it on the Pioneer Kuro or on the JVC-X7500 projector... both just can't cope with it for some reason. The developer of the expansion board is not willing or able to adjust the settings unfortunately.

Am i correct in thinking a good scaler like a Lumagen or DVDO VP50 etc. would probably be able to tame this and adjust it so it could be displayed on the Kuro or JVC?

So, since the 'cheap' HP monitor can do it, i'm thinking maybe there are some simple HDMI scalers or converters out there that, just like the HP monitor, would accept this signal and would output it properly or even scaled as 720p/1080p?

Anyone got some views on this? Other solutions?

Would something like an old Lumagen Vision VHD work? Those can be had very cheap, and can adjust front/backporches etc if i'm correct?
Back to top
jowi



Joined: 14 May 2006
Posts: 83



PostLink    Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I bought a very cheap scaler from alixpress: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Universal-Digital-HDMI-to-HDMI-4K-Scaler-Converter-Amplifier-Down-Upscaler-with-Zoom-Aux-Audio-3D/32857250937.html and it works, well, kind off. It does accept the signal coming from the Atari board, and it can upscale it to 720p or 1080p (or 4k), so *any* display can now display it, including my Pioneer Kuro and the JVC-X7500 Smile

It does add some artifacts, so the scaler itself is not very good, but as a proof of concept and a quick fix, it works. At least i can now attach the Atari to my Arcam AVR850 and output it to either the Kuro or the JVCm which is pretty cool.

I've also ordered a 2nd hand Lumagen Vision HDP, i'm hoping that will allow me to change the timings, and leave the resolution in tact, or scale it up as well but with higher quality, but for now this will work.







Last edited by jowi on Mon Nov 26, 2018 2:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator


Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 25470
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G


PostLink    Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting stuff! Hope you get better results from the HDP.
_________________
Tech support for nothing

CRT.

HD done right!
Back to top
View user's photo album (27 photos)
kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 15872
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56


PostLink    Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep - have to say it looks pretty cool! Makes me want to boot up one of my C64s again... Wink

Kal

_________________

Support our site by using our affiliate links. We thank you!
My basement/HT/bar/brewery build 2.0
Back to top
View user's photo album (18 photos)
AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator


Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 25470
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G


PostLink    Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 3:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

or Coleco ADAM Wink
_________________
Tech support for nothing

CRT.

HD done right!
Back to top
View user's photo album (27 photos)
kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 15872
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56


PostLink    Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see your Coleco and raise you a Vic-20!

Kal

_________________

Support our site by using our affiliate links. We thank you!
My basement/HT/bar/brewery build 2.0
Back to top
View user's photo album (18 photos)
AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator


Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 25470
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G


PostLink    Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 5:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have 2 Vic-20's and raise you an Osborne!
_________________
Tech support for nothing

CRT.

HD done right!
Back to top
View user's photo album (27 photos)
jowi



Joined: 14 May 2006
Posts: 83



PostLink    Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You guys should check out The 8 bit Guy on youtube Wink

It's amazing how many people still enjoy these old machines. There are even new games coming out, people are building hardware to connect the old 8 bitters to pc's, emulating floppydrives etc. Amazing stuff! For the Atari i've ordered a device that they developed, consists of an Arduino Uno, with a touchscreen on top and a 16GB SD card, the size of a box of cigarettes, and with the touchscreen you can select a game or disk or program or even a rom from the SD card, and boot the atari with it over a serial connection, emulating a floppydisk. I'm sure there are similar products being developed for the Vic20/C64 etc community.
Back to top
AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator


Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 25470
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G


PostLink    Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's with him and techmoan?
_________________
Tech support for nothing

CRT.

HD done right!
Back to top
View user's photo album (27 photos)
jowi



Joined: 14 May 2006
Posts: 83



PostLink    Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 7:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No idea, i've never heard of techmoan until you brought it up, had to google it LOL Smile will check him out as well.
_________________
Arcam AVR850 Pioneer KURO KRP-600M KEF Reference Model 4/2/200c Velodyne DD15 HDI Dune 4K Solo Squeezebox Radio/Duet Wyrewizard Dreamcaster & Spellbinder (by Nordost) JVC D-ILA-X7500 HdFury Vertex
Back to top
AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator


Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 25470
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G


PostLink    Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Techmoan once converted 8 track to cassette to bluetooth. I then realized I have everything here to do the same. Shocked

My kinda people.

_________________
Tech support for nothing

CRT.

HD done right!
Back to top
View user's photo album (27 photos)
jowi



Joined: 14 May 2006
Posts: 83



PostLink    Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Watched some of his video's, i like the old hifi items, don't care much for the rest.
_________________
Arcam AVR850 Pioneer KURO KRP-600M KEF Reference Model 4/2/200c Velodyne DD15 HDI Dune 4K Solo Squeezebox Radio/Duet Wyrewizard Dreamcaster & Spellbinder (by Nordost) JVC D-ILA-X7500 HdFury Vertex
Back to top
AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator


Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 25470
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G


PostLink    Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some do go on da bit, but there's something about a well narated british video that just seems right...
_________________
Tech support for nothing

CRT.

HD done right!
Back to top
View user's photo album (27 photos)
jowi



Joined: 14 May 2006
Posts: 83



PostLink    Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got a very good deal on a 2nd hand VP50, got delivered yesterday. I've had a VP50 before, back in the day when i had my Barco 1209, so i am familiar with it at least a bit. I know i can adjust output h/v front/back porches/pixels etc. so i thought that might do the trick.

But... once i connect the signal from the atari... the VP50 can't do anything with it... it says 'unknown signal'. That really baffles me, i can understand that my tv or a pc monitor can't handle it, but i would think a scaler like this would have no problem with it? Weird...

Also, i bought a $40 cheap hdmi upscaler from alixpress. Now, that cheap thing *can* read the signal, and it does upscale it to 1080p. Thing is, the upscaling quality is really bad... but, if this cheap device can handle the signal, why can't the superior VP50?

This is the cheap upscaler:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Universal-Digital-HDMI-to-HDMI-4K-Scaler-Converter-Amplifier-Down-Upscaler-with-Zoom-Aux-Audio-3D/32857250937.html

_________________
Arcam AVR850 Pioneer KURO KRP-600M KEF Reference Model 4/2/200c Velodyne DD15 HDI Dune 4K Solo Squeezebox Radio/Duet Wyrewizard Dreamcaster & Spellbinder (by Nordost) JVC D-ILA-X7500 HdFury Vertex
Back to top
AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator


Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 25470
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G


PostLink    Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Remind me again what signal the Atari puts out?
_________________
Tech support for nothing

CRT.

HD done right!
Back to top
View user's photo album (27 photos)
jowi



Joined: 14 May 2006
Posts: 83



PostLink    Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Funny... i'm very dissapointed in my Dune Pro 4K mediaplayer. But... it has a HDMI input... and if i connect the Atari to it, the Dune displays it perfectly...

So it looks like some HDMI devices, for some reason, don't understand it, some do, some cheap ones won't, some do, some expensive ones won't, some do... there is no way to be sure which device can cope with this... really frustrating.

_________________
Arcam AVR850 Pioneer KURO KRP-600M KEF Reference Model 4/2/200c Velodyne DD15 HDI Dune 4K Solo Squeezebox Radio/Duet Wyrewizard Dreamcaster & Spellbinder (by Nordost) JVC D-ILA-X7500 HdFury Vertex
Back to top
jowi



Joined: 14 May 2006
Posts: 83



PostLink    Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AnalogRocks wrote:
Remind me again what signal the Atari puts out?

The atari outputs DVI, 1280x960, timings in opening post.

_________________
Arcam AVR850 Pioneer KURO KRP-600M KEF Reference Model 4/2/200c Velodyne DD15 HDI Dune 4K Solo Squeezebox Radio/Duet Wyrewizard Dreamcaster & Spellbinder (by Nordost) JVC D-ILA-X7500 HdFury Vertex
Back to top
nidi



Joined: 17 Aug 2008
Posts: 198
Location: Switzerland


PostLink    Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
Yep - have to say it looks pretty cool! Makes me want to boot up one of my C64s again... Wink

Kal




Kal, check this out,

this is awesome!

http://www.1541ultimate.net/content/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=74&catid=9&Itemid=127
Back to top
AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator


Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 25470
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G


PostLink    Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 3:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jowi wrote:
AnalogRocks wrote:
Remind me again what signal the Atari puts out?

The atari outputs DVI, 1280x960, timings in opening post.


Riiigghhttt. I should go back and read. Slow and tired today.

Let's have a look at the VP50 Manual. It's possible that it won't take PC resolutions?

Just as a test try using the passthrough setting on the VP50 to see if it will at leat pass that resolution out to the HDMI port.

_________________
Tech support for nothing

CRT.

HD done right!
Back to top
View user's photo album (27 photos)
jowi



Joined: 14 May 2006
Posts: 83



PostLink    Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

According to the manual: http://static.highspeedbackbone.net/pdf/DVDOiScanVP30Manual.pdf (link says vp30 but document is vp50...) section 5 table 2, there is a mention of passthrough, but i can't find that option anywhere in the menu tree...

The vp50 does support 1280x960 as output.

_________________
Arcam AVR850 Pioneer KURO KRP-600M KEF Reference Model 4/2/200c Velodyne DD15 HDI Dune 4K Solo Squeezebox Radio/Duet Wyrewizard Dreamcaster & Spellbinder (by Nordost) JVC D-ILA-X7500 HdFury Vertex
Back to top
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer-friendly view    CurtPalme.com Forum Index -> Video Processors, Converters, Switchers, Cables All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum